FJ/GSG/KSK Helmets

[gp1977]

Hi,

I have questions for the experts - BW FJ were the "kind of" original users of this helmet (i know it was limited / test usage only) and it was then issued to GSG followed by KSK.
When was it first issued ? I know it was in use till mid-1990s.
Any info on numbers made, producers and issued unit is appreciated.
Below are photo of 2 in my collection - green and blue-tray one.
Thanks
George

[Collectinsteve]

Hi George,

As luck would have it, there's a very long and extremely detailed thread about these helmets here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=362510

Short of it is there is no correlation between BW and BGS helmet designs other than both being based on the wartime M38. The above thread will give you more details on what the differences are. The easy one is that all GSG-9 production helmets had a chin cup, none of the Bundeswehr ones had chin cups. Since chin cups can be moved around it is not a 100% indicator one way or the other, but it's the first tip off that something is or isn't BGS.

Based on a quick look at your shells I'd say you have two GSG-9 helmets. Production was early 1970s. Assuming your helmets still have their original liners (should look like standard 1960s-1990s BW liner) there is a date stamp. Check on the underside of the liner (rough side) for a rectangular stamp. You can see pictures of several of these at the end of the above mentioned thread.

GSG-9 would not have had a gray painted helmet. I don't think any SEK force would use a GSG-9 helmet painted LW gray, but I suppose it's possible. Better guess is a reenactor repainted it. Look inside and check to see if there are signs of the original green paint anywhere.

Steve

[gp1977]

Hi George,

As luck would have it, there's a very long and extremely detailed thread about these helmets here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=362510

Short of it is there is no correlation between BW and BGS helmet designs other than both being based on the wartime M38. The above thread will give you more details on what the differences are. The easy one is that all GSG-9 production helmets had a chin cup, none of the Bundeswehr ones had chin cups. Since chin cups can be moved around it is not a 100% indicator one way or the other, but it's the first tip off that something is or isn't BGS.

Based on a quick look at your shells I'd say you have two GSG-9 helmets. Production was early 1970s. Assuming your helmets still have their original liners (should look like standard 1960s-1990s BW liner) there is a date stamp. Check on the underside of the liner (rough side) for a rectangular stamp. You can see pictures of several of these at the end of the above mentioned thread.

GSG-9 would not have had a gray painted helmet. I don't think any SEK force would use a GSG-9 helmet painted LW gray, but I suppose it's possible. Better guess is a reenactor repainted it. Look inside and check to see if there are signs of the original green paint anywhere.

Steve

Thanks and I did read it.

I know the green is GSG 9 and it has the standard BW liner (size 60), but no stamp with a date.

The second one came from Germany and it was not reenactor helmet - the bluish grey (not LW blue) is consistent inside and outside and wear on the edge doesn't show any different color being ever applied. The liner is also standard BW type (size 56).

Both helmets have textured paint on the outside.

[Collectinsteve]

What I meant about reenactor helmet is someone, perhaps 20-30 years ago, took a GSG-9 helmet and painted it to look like a WW2 FJ helmet. This was a time before mass production of "fakes" out of China and elsewhere. Lots of BW and BGS helmets were modified like that, either by honest guys looking for a cheap reenactor prop or from dishonest sellers trying to trick people. The helmet you have might have gone through several people's hands before getting to you.

I've never seen a GSG-9 helmet (and for sure that's what it is) painted gray. Of course someone could have popped off the liner and painted the helmet. That's the sensible way to do it, though for sure some take the lazy way out.

So I don't know what you have exactly, but for sure it is GSG-9 and not BW. If it was BW there would be a WW2 type liner and probably a different type of bolts.

Steve

[gp1977]

What I meant about reenactor helmet is someone, perhaps 20-30 years ago, took a GSG-9 helmet and painted it to look like a WW2 FJ helmet. This was a time before mass production of "fakes" out of China and elsewhere. Lots of BW and BGS helmets were modified like that, either by honest guys looking for a cheap reenactor prop or from dishonest sellers trying to trick people. The helmet you have might have gone through several people's hands before getting to you.

I've never seen a GSG-9 helmet (and for sure that's what it is) painted gray. Of course someone could have popped off the liner and painted the helmet. That's the sensible way to do it, though for sure some take the lazy way out.

So I don't know what you have exactly, but for sure it is GSG-9 and not BW. If it was BW there would be a WW2 type liner and probably a different type of bolts.

Steve

Thanks, the bluish/greyish helmet has exact texture as the green so i am pretty sure it is not a repaint unless somebody sandblasted the shell and then repainted mimicking the gsg 9 helmet texture. I will post some better photos taken in the daylight.

[Klaus1989]

I agree with Steve, is not early Bundeswehr FJ helmet. All originals have different finish (normally smooth) and liner. Shell is also differ at least slightly, depending which Bw version. No need to sandblast, paint stripper will remove paint and texture is not that hard to replicate. I have restored WW2 helmets in the past with this method. If this was done in 1980s or so, can even have a little real patina now. GSG 9 helmets were popular with early WW2 reenactors in 1980s-early 90s.

Regards
Klaus

[gp1977]

Thank you and here it is in the daylight.

Liner is marked and from 1973.

All original and no repaints etc.