Bundesmarine Admiral visor cap

[BW-Sammler]

Hey guys,

what are your thoughts about this cap?
This one has a permanent (non reverseble) blue (very dark) top.
Is it possible to date the cap? Maybe from the 60ies?

Thank you for your help!

Regards

[BW-Sammler]

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[BW-Sammler]

Last pic

[SprogCollector]

I'd need to check but I'm pretty sure blue tops ceased to be worn ~1968 so, if Bundesmarine, would date not later than this.

I only have one admirals cap. The top is larger/rounder (Tellerform) rather than the Sattelform of yours.

My other blue officer caps are very similar to the one you have except for mine having removable tops.

I'm not sure if Handelsmarine officers wore flag-officer caps or not?

[Gordon Craig]

BW-Sammler,

I would say this cap could be dated to the 60s. I have an Senior NCOs cap by Isken in the same shape with a non-removable top dated 1961. It could even be earlier. The cloth covered visor with the Admirals oak leaves matches my white topped, later issue, Admirals visor. Visors were made separately from the cap then sewn onto the cap. That appears to be what has been done with this cap.
In my estimation this is a Bundesmarine cap and not connected to the Handlesmarine.

Regards,

Gordon

[BW-Sammler]

Thank you guys for your replies
Much appreciated

Regards

[SprogCollector]

Gordon, curious if I misinterpreted your last post? Are you saying that naval officers purchased a cap body and then had the correct visor attached as opposed to purchasing a rank-specific cap?

I've owned about 10-15 mid-level naval officer caps over the years and all appeared to have factory-attached visors -- or at least had no obvious signs of visor replacement.

I can't tell from the photos if the OP cap has a replaced visor or not but the sweatband stitching appears be two different colors (might be lighting?).

[Gordon Craig]

SprogCollector,

We have to look at the different periods of the BW to answer your question. Most officers visor caps were issued items. I didn't mean to indicate that all officers caps were bought as a separate cap top and visor.
Officers could buy their own and the hat would be made by a private manufacturer or the seller itself. I have a catalogue, or at least pictures from a catalogue somewhere, that shows visors available as a separate purchase from the cap top. This would be a logical way to sell officers private purchase caps, especially for Admirals and Generals, since these are not really an off-the-shelf item. I'll see if I can find the catalogue and post some pictures.
Since the time that everything is purchased through LDBw I am not sure how the supply of Admirals and Generals visor hats takes place.
The cap that started this thread appears to have been a private purchase one and the visor ends are not as well attached as they might be. Perhaps the cap body was updated from a senior officer one to that of an admiral upon promotion. Much cheaper than buying a new cap. The possible up-dating of the rank on this cap is just my speculation.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Some pictures of my saddle shaped cap from the same time period of the cap that started this thread.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Maker label.

[Tom B]

I like it !!!

[SprogCollector]

Thanks for your reply, Gordon. Nice early cap!

If the visor on the OP cap is a replacement, it really opens up areas for concern -- from a collector perspective. Is it really a period upgrade/repair? Or is it a junior officer cap upgraded to admiral to increase its value? Blue-top Admiral caps are pretty rare.

Would an admiral really be so frugal that he would upgrade an existing cap rather than just purchase a new one with the proper visor?

[Gordon Craig]

Sprogcollector,

Good question. I do't really know the answer to that. Because a person is a General doesn't mean they have a lot of money in the bank etc. There wasn't a lot of money around in Germany in the late 50s and early 60s.
I did locate an LDH catalogue last night and General officers visor caps cost in the 260 euro range while a Generals hand stitched visor sells for around 80 euros.

Regards,

Gordon

[BW-Sammler]

Hey guys,

thanks for the interesting discussion.

Do you need better photos of the Admiral cap?
I bought it as an original Admiral visor cap of the Bundesmarine.

Regards

[Gordon Craig]

BW-Sammler,

I don't need any more pictures of your cap. I am fully satisfied that it is an authentic early Bundesmarine Admirals visor cap. One that would be welcome in my collection.

Regards,

Gordon