Heym Leuchtpistole Type 3

[540 M-Sport]

Type 1 Heym

[540 M-Sport]

[Klaus1989]

Great rare piece! I search for one myself. Interesting, that the trigger is different from trigger guard (on my type3 are same). Great to see different stamps on these! What letters are under the Bundesadler? Hard to see for me.

So was this imported directly, as I see the seller in Europe?

Regards
Klaus

[540 M-Sport]

The letters are "SP". There is also "IG" next to it, in larger font.

Yes, private message "Bergler". He is a fellow collector in Austria and extremely honest and helpful with obtaining flare items from Europe. I don't believe he is in this as a business, but simply a fellow collector like ourselves.

[Klaus1989]

Interesting, SP would normally would stand for "Endbeschuß mit Schwarzpulver", but not sure why black powder proof test would be necessary for flare pistols. Normally marked only S for "Handfeuerwaffen für besondere Zwecke und Schußapparate". IG would be who did the proofs. I can not find this in government lists, could be civilian agency. Usually also marked for agency, that issued them such as BMI/BMdI for Interior Ministry (BGS) or BdF for Finance Ministry (Zoll). I know, that these were used for BGS and Zollgrenzdienst (branch of customs for border patrols), not sure, if Landespolizei or civilian markets also received any Heym flare pistols or not.

Not know, that it flare pistols could be imported (by individuals). Learned something new!

Regards
Klaus

[540 M-Sport]

I just won an auction for a Heym type 3 in prestine condition tonight...looks almost new. I will post photos next week, once it is in my possession.

If you wish to look at the proofs, here is a link to the listing: (would be interested in hearing your comments)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=455070281
This link will only be active for a couple months, then deleted. I suspect GunBroker does not have much storage space. They have severe limits on number of photos, and sizes of photos, unless one uses a photo service.

[540 M-Sport]

Interesting, SP would normally would stand for "Endbeschuß mit Schwarzpulver", but not sure why black powder proof test would be necessary for flare pistols. Normally marked only S for "Handfeuerwaffen für besondere Zwecke und Schußapparate". IG would be who did the proofs. I can not find this in government lists, could be civilian agency. Usually also marked for agency, that issued them such as BMI/BMdI for Interior Ministry (BGS) or BdF for Finance Ministry (Zoll). I know, that these were used for BGS and Zollgrenzdienst (branch of customs for border patrols), not sure, if Landespolizei or civilian markets also received any Heym flare pistols or not.

Not know, that it flare pistols could be imported (by individuals). Learned something new!

Regards
Klaus

To the best of my knowledge, all flare cartridges are typically blackpowder, due to the lower pressure generated. I have not seen smokeless powder rounds. I have a selection of post war West German, East German, and Czech military rounds, as well as some commercially produced 25mm USA manufactured (maritime) rounds.
I use them around the 4th of July, as that minimizes complaints from neighbors.

[540 M-Sport]

edit , I meant to say this was a Heym Type 4, the last variant.

I just won an auction for a Heym type 3 in prestine condition tonight...looks almost new. I will post photos next week, once it is in my possession.

If you wish to look at the proofs, here is a link to the listing: (would be interested in hearing your comments)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=455070281
This link will only be active for a couple months, then deleted. I suspect GunBroker does not have much storage space. They have severe limits on number of photos, and sizes of photos, unless one uses a photo service.

[Klaus1989]

I saw that flare pistol on gunbroker. I thought, that it was just late Type 3, but then not really know everything about these. I collect only 1950s-early 60s.

[QUOTE=540 M-Sport;6708116]To the best of my knowledge, all flare cartridges are typically blackpowder, due to the lower pressure generated. I have not seen smokeless powder rounds.[QUOTE]
Yes, but normally would think would be marked S, as they are "special devices" rather than true firearms. The one from gunbroker is marked N. So far, we have seen S, SP and N as proof markings!

Your mention of flares remind me, I posted some empty flare cases earlier in thread, but have not been able to date most. Would you have any more infos about these?

Regards
Klaus

[540 M-Sport]

[QUOTE=Klaus1989;6708734]I saw that flare pistol on gunbroker. I thought, that it was just late Type 3, but then not really know everything about these. I collect only 1950s-early 60s.

[QUOTE=540 M-Sport;6708116]To the best of my knowledge, all flare cartridges are typically blackpowder, due to the lower pressure generated. I have not seen smokeless powder rounds.

Yes, but normally would think would be marked S, as they are "special devices" rather than true firearms. The one from gunbroker is marked N. So far, we have seen S, SP and N as proof markings!

Your mention of flares remind me, I posted some empty flare cases earlier in thread, but have not been able to date most. Would you have any more infos about these?

Regards
Klaus

I believe the one I recently bought is a type 4 as it only has 5 assembly pins. The 1,2, and 3 all have 6 assembly pins, as well as the various reinforcements to identify the variant. You have probably seen the type 2 that has been listed on GunBroker for the past 6 or 7 months, offered by seller "metJFK". He has a very high price of $275 or something...which is too high, based on the rough condition, import stamp by Century Arms, and over stamp on the "BUND" marking. All in all, I am hunting for a nicer example. I did make him a reasonable offer, but he declined. The market will say who is right... He is also offering a LP1 for $295(!) good luck with that price lol. (also have been listed for 7 months or so, with no buyer of course)

As far as the flares...I did some sorting through the boxes of flares I have...but I would recommend you purchase the terrific reference book on flare/signal cartridges "German Flare Pistols and Signal Ammunition by Lorenz Scheit. You can find it on Amazon. It is a bit pricy, but a terrific resource.

I can tell you that the far left flare is a rocket flare, and mine are dated June and Aug 1984, dates found on the outer foil wrap that the box is inside. The flare fourth from the right, I have them in both four white star and four red star, and the box is sealed in a plastic overwrap, with no date, so unknown...probably 1980s.
You can get those from Numrich Arms. The rocket flares are available from Combat Disabled Veterans Surplus.

I have several types of East German flares in single, multiple star and smoke. The are dated 1970s and 1980s. Neat boxes, they vaguely resemble the WWII German boxes. I will have to post some pictures...

[Klaus1989]

I know about book, but is very expensive, as you mentioned. I had not seen the Type 2, but found it. Also Zoll-marked. Mine have same stamp over BUND and import stamp. The former is hard to avoid for surplus.

I thought, that the style of smaller flares looked older (1960s?) than the small flare on far right, which is from box in photo. The box is labelled LS65 and say use until 1976, so this would seem to indicate late 60s-early 70s manufacture for flare on far right.

Regards
Klaus

[540 M-Sport]

Klaus,
In my previous post, I meant "fourth from left"...not right. The four star flare pictured. Sorry for my mistake.

Do get the book, it is a worthwhile reference to have. I hesitated for many months, but have not regretted the purchase. I have found a few minor errors, but overall it is excellent. It focuses mostly on cartridges, which I believe, is the author's main area of interest. But it also has information on pistols, holster and accessories.

If you shop carefully on the Amazon, you can get the book for $116 with shipping. That is a lower price than I could find four months ago... which was $125 with shipping.

[Pas de croix]

Is this Heym Type 2 (reinforcement around rear of chamber)?

/Olof

[540 M-Sport]

Yes, that appears to be a type 2 Heym. It is possible the black paint finish is not original. The only documented black Heym were the type 3 with a flat black or matte black finish. I can confirm, as I found a black type 3 I obtained for my collection a couple years ago. Yours has a more glossy finish.