West German Marineflieger

[RedCatcher1986]

Ah yes the PAH-2 Tiger helicopter. I remember there being some controversy over the German Tiger gunship program that caused them to be fielded without a chin cannon like their French counterparts. While I've yet to see one up close, I work closely with EADS and I hear about them from time to time from the Turbomeca engine guys. Seems like a decent airframe if only the Heer could get the thing fully operational and ready for combat service. Did you get the NH-90 orientation also?

[RamJet]

No, I never flew in a NH-90. I am more in the fast jet business. But to get a ride in the Tiger was quite an experience. Still, I prefer jets ...

Oh, by the way, the first German Tigers are now deployed to Afghanistan.

[RedCatcher1986]

Does the Luftwaffe/Marineflieger issue it's aviators an escape and evasion/survival kit similar to the ones US military aviators carry with the survival blanket, flare gun, survival radio etc etc etc in it?

[Gordon Craig]

Ramjet,

Sorry, I must have been thinking of some other picture. While we are discussing the helmets, and since DeWayne has asked about helmets to go with his immersion suit, perhaps you could give us a brief history of flight helmets worn by the BW. First off, do you remember what the model number was of the helmet you wore in the helicopter picture you posted?
My information on BW flight helmets, other than what you and I have dscussed previously off line, comes for the book "JET AGED FLIGHT HELMETS" so lets put that here for others to look at.
According to Wise and Breuninger in their book "JET AGE FLIGHT HELMETS" Germany used the French produced Guereau Type 316 with the MBU/5P oxygen mast in the 70s and 80s. These helmets were white. I have one downstairs somewhere and I will have to dig it out and have closer look at it. They go on to say that the next helmet adopted, in 1980, was the U.S. made Gentex HGU-55/G and this helmet was used with the MBU-12p oxygen mask. The picture in the book shows a khaki (green/brown) helmet and it says they were used in the F4 Phantom II fighters. Lastly they mention that in 1990 an improved version of the HGU-55/G was adopted and they show a grey helmet in this picture. It was said to be worn with the MBU-12 mask with WEA bayonets on either side. (water activated bayonet devices which release the mask from the wearers face to prevnt him from drowning-which you already know- this is for other readers benefits).
I have no way of substantiating what they have said in their book and it would really help me in my research if you could tell us what you know, from first hand experience, about the flight helmets worn in the BW.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Redcatcher1986,

You commented on the plastic knife in the pocket of the suit. I doubt if this would be of much use on a canopy. It is probably meant for use in cutting the shroud lines of a parachute.

Regards,

Gordon

[RedCatcher1986]

Redcatcher1986,

You commented on the plastic knife in the pocket of the suit. I doubt if this would be of much use on a canopy. It is probably meant for use in cutting the shroud lines of a parachute.

Regards,

Gordon

Yes Gordon it does suit better for cutting the lines of the wearer's parachute it just bears a close resemblance to the tool incorporated in a lot of knives now meant for breaking glass but considering in the ejection sequence that the canopy is usually blown clear prior to the ejection seats rocket motor igniting it does seem more so suited to dealing with parachute lines.

Interesting to note that the HGU-55 was worn by Bundeswehr aviators.

[RamJet]

Does the Luftwaffe/Marineflieger issue it's aviators an escape and evasion/survival kit similar to the ones US military aviators carry with the survival blanket, flare gun, survival radio etc etc etc in it?

Such a kit is in the Flight Jacket (Eurofighter gear).

[RamJet]

Ramjet,

Sorry, I must have been thinking of some other picture. While we are discussing the helmets, and since DeWayne has asked about helmets to go with his immersion suit, perhaps you could give us a brief history of flight helmets worn by the BW. First off, do you remember what the model number was of the helmet you wore in the helicopter picture you posted?
My information on BW flight helmets, other than what you and I have dscussed previously off line, comes for the book "JET AGED FLIGHT HELMETS" so lets put that here for others to look at.
According to Wise and Breuninger in their book "JET AGE FLIGHT HELMETS" Germany used the French produced Guereau Type 316 with the MBU/5P oxygen mast in the 70s and 80s. These helmets were white. I have one downstairs somewhere and I will have to dig it out and have closer look at it. They go on to say that the next helmet adopted, in 1980, was the U.S. made Gentex HGU-55/G and this helmet was used with the MBU-12p oxygen mask. The picture in the book shows a khaki (green/brown) helmet and it says they were used in the F4 Phantom II fighters. Lastly they mention that in 1990 an improved version of the HGU-55/G was adopted and they show a grey helmet in this picture. It was said to be worn with the MBU-12 mask with WEA bayonets on either side. (water activated bayonet devices which release the mask from the wearers face to prevnt him from drowning-which you already know- this is for other readers benefits).
I have no way of substantiating what they have said in their book and it would really help me in my research if you could tell us what you know, from first hand experience, about the flight helmets worn in the BW.

Regards,

Gordon

I have no clue what type of helicopter helmet that was. I took the helmet, went flying, and gave it back, that was it.

Regarding the jet helmets, we used the French Guineau in white well within the middle of the 80s. Then they were painted grey, and then - together with the blue-grey flight suit in the end of the 80s, as far as I remember - the HGU-55/G was introduced, also in grey. Still in use today by F-4 and Tornado crews, EF crews have a different helmet. What kind of oxygen mask? Don't know, have to look in the papers of my equipment. I am only the user, so I am not that familiar with every detail designation.

But what I know for sure is that there never were brown helmets in flight-line use in Germany, whatever Your book tells You.

[Gordon Craig]

Ramjet,

Thanks for your response. Especially the part about the white helmets being painted grey. I have read that elsewhere but was unable to confirm that as fact until now. Good information to have.

Regards,

Gordon

[RamJet]

That's because I have my old Guineau which is painted grey in the attic ... so I can prove it ...

[RedCatcher1986]

Where did this fictitious brown helmet information come from?

[Gordon Craig]

RedCatcher1986,

The information I listed above came from the book "JET AGED FLIGHT HELMETS".
I would not say that this is necessarily "fictitious information" about the brown helmet. The book lists the brown helmet as being used by Germany. Ramjet said it was not used on the flight line so he is saying that a brown helmet was never used by the Luftwaffe. There is always a possibility that a brown helmet was used by the Heer. There is much we still need to learn about flight helmets used by the BW.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

I looked inside my khaki suit yesterday and took pictures of the makers label which I found interesting. My suit was made in 1983 which is hard to read in the photo. There are also locations on the label to put the dates when the suit was tested. Most of these dates are not visible but from what I can see they appear to have been tested annually.

Regards,

Gordon

[RedCatcher1986]

Gordon,

Here is a picture of the label from the inside of my Immersion Suit

[RamJet]

RedCatcher1986,

The information I listed above came from the book "JET AGED FLIGHT HELMETS".
I would not say that this is necessarily "fictitious information" about the brown helmet. The book lists the brown helmet as being used by Germany. Ramjet said it was not used on the flight line so he is saying that a brown helmet was never used by the Luftwaffe. There is always a possibility that a brown helmet was used by the Heer. There is much we still need to learn about flight helmets used by the BW.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon, to clarify: I have never ever heard of or seen a brown helmet in use in Germany, not in the Luftwaffe, not in the Heer and not in the Marine. But the olive-drab helmets look sometimes a shade of brown in colour pics.