Does anyone recognize this Knight's Cross holder?

[Guardian 5]

Gents,

The below picture came in the other day featuring a Bundesluftwaffe lieutenant colonel flanked by two general officers.

The LTC is wearing the ribbon for the Knight's Cross and an array of other significant decorations.

They are sitting in front of a model of an F-84F Thunderstreak fighter-bomber.

An accompanying picture shows what appears to be a ceremony wherein a squadron is rolling out the Thunderstreak for the first time.

Any additional information on these photos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
TJ

[Guardian 5]

This photo of a Thunderstreak in Luftwaffe colors is from Wikipedia.


TJ

[Proud Kraut]

I have no clue, who the Oberstlt is, but maybe we can narrow down the timeframe the pic was taken. The first Inspekteur of the Luftwaffe was General Josef Kammhuber. He was the only one, who was promoted to four star General while being Lw-Inspekteur (May, 9th 1961). IF the General on the left is Kammhuber, the pic must have been taken between May 1961 and September 1962, when he retired.

http://www.google.de/imgres?q=inspek...9,r:0,s:0,i:82

Regards

Lars

[Arthur Spooner]

Very intersting picture, thank you for showing.

Lars I agree with Kammhuber. (left general)
Here is a picture of him with his ribbon bar before he got the Bundesverdienstkreuz on 21. August 1962.
So the picture was made some days before he was retired.

Regards,
Matthias.

[Arthur Spooner]

...here a picture to compare the ribbon bars, with the additional
Großes Verdienstkreuz des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland mit Stern und Schulterband

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

The officers in the picture are all wearing pointed shoulder boards so this picture was probably taken no later than December 1962. Rounded end shoulder boards were authorized in November of 62 and were probably not worn before Jan. 1963. The F84F was flow by the Bundesluftwaffe from the beginning. By 1956 they had 450 F84F aircraft in service in JABOG31, 32, 34, 35 and 63. They flew the RF84F in Aufklarungsgeschwader 52. The BL had a total of 108 RF84F on their inventory. The light colonel in the centre is probably the squadron CO. All we need to do now is find which CO of the squadrons that flew the F84F was an RKT.

Regards,

Gordon

[juoneen]

Is the generals (JK)collar tabs metal on cloth or bullion? By the way I own his mappe. Does anybody know what happened to his uniforms and stuff , like , is it in any museum?

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

We can probably rule out two men and two squadrons at the same time.
JABOG 31 - CO from 57 to 62 was Lt/Col Gerhard Barkhorn - he won the oak leaves with swords so he can not be the man in the picture
JABOG 35 - CO from 59 to 63 was Lt/Col. Karl Henze, Oak Leaves so he can not be the man in the picture either.
That would leave the possibility of the CO of JABOG 32, 34, and 63.
Interesting research!

Regards,

Gordon

[Arthur Spooner]

It is getting more and more interesting!

Could it be Wilhelm Meyn?

- he was since 1. September 1961 Oberstleutnant

- December 1962 till January 1964 Jagdbombergeschwader 31

- and his medals fits perfecty to the ribbon bar:
Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse
Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse
Frontflugspange für Schlachtflieger in Gold mit Einsatzzahl 700 (!)
Ärmelband “Kurland“
Flugzeugführer-Abzeichen
Croatian Fliegerspange (Luftwaffenabzeichen)
Croatian Militärorden vom Eisernen Dreiblatt

- picture of the later Bundeswehr look imo very similar.

What do you think?


P.S. The pictures were made imo in winter (trees and table decoration)

[Guardian 5]

Bravo history detectives - - what an amazing display of knowledge!

Little did I know that I had two RKTs in one picture....

In response to Gordon's suggestion, I looked up the commanders of Jagbombergeschwader 32 and 34.

The commander of Jagbombergeschwader 32 during this time was Obstlt. Siegfried Barth who was relieved of commnad and then re-instated when two of his Thunderstreaks strayed into East Germany and landed in West Berlin (with half of the Soviet Air Force in pursuit...).

The commander of Jagbombergeschwader 34 was a Major Grave who was followed by Oberst Gunther Rall.

I could not find a Jagbombergeschwader 63.

Thus if we are confident in ruling out Siegrfried Barth, that would make Arthur Spooner's candidate of Wilhelm Meyn all the more compelling.

My thanks to all for contributing their wonderful knowledge of the early Bundesluftwaffe.

All the best,
TJ

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

Re your second picture. If memory serves me right, the squadrons that flew F84F started to convert to the F-104 in 1961 and some squadrons were completely converted by 1965/66. So, two possibilities for your second photo. The introduction of the F84F or the retiring of the F84F. The picture is not too clear but I do not see any registration numbers on the noses of the aircraft in the pictures. These numbers usually designated the squadron number as well as the aircraft number in the squadron. Perhaps you are correct that it was when the F84F aircraft were being taken into service by one of the squadrons that flew them. I do not know if aircraft were delivered to the squadrons with the nose numbers painted on or if they were added by each squadron. The second option sounds the most reasonable. That would be a logical reason why there were no nose numbers on these aircraft if they were just being accepted by a squadron.

Regards,

Gordon

[Arthur Spooner]

I personaly do not think, that it is Siegfried Barth.
Compare his picture and the ribbon bar:

[Collectinsteve]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm thrilled with the pictures even without the extra information! Such nice, clear shots of very early general's uniforms. Very nice to see.

Steve

[werner]

It is getting more and more interesting!

Could it be Wilhelm Meyn?

- he was since 1. September 1961 Oberstleutnant

- December 1962 till January 1964 Jagdbombergeschwader 31

- and his medals fits perfecty to the ribbon bar:
Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse
Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse
Frontflugspange für Schlachtflieger in Gold mit Einsatzzahl 700 (!)
Ärmelband “Kurland“
Flugzeugführer-Abzeichen
Croatian Fliegerspange (Luftwaffenabzeichen)
Croatian Militärorden vom Eisernen Dreiblatt

- picture of the later Bundeswehr look imo very similar.

What do you think?


P.S. The pictures were made imo in winter (trees and table decoration)

I think this is him.
Here is a ww2 picture of Wilhelm Meyn.

[Guardian 5]

Werner,

Thanks for posting this picture. I think it is definitive proof that the officer in question is Wilhem Meyn.

Thanks again,
TJ