Bundeswehr trial uniform

[darkhunter]

I ask a few collectors i know one says it was a woodland camo produce for the truks, since they had the mark on all east german stuff and west germany.other one said that jacket fits in the same area as the czech rust camo.

[Collectinsteve]

Yup, I've heard that too. But nobody can offer up any evidence. It's pure speculation most likely based on the first coloration being similar to a particular Turkish pattern. But there are four problems with this rumor:

1. The pattern isn't even close to being the same as the Turkish pattern in terms of the shapes. Quick glance... sure, some similarity, but not when you really look at it.

2. The Turks have been using a consistent uniform design for about 30 years. The 100% Bundeswehr cut would not only break with that tradition, but it would mean Turks using the uniform design of another country. That would be a huge hit to Turkish national pride, so it's very unlikely.

3. The Turks have adequate and much cheaper manufacturing domestically. It is highly doubtful they would want to pay so much more for their uniforms.

4. No photographic evidence of the Turks ever wearing uniforms other than their own production. Certainly no evidence of this uniform being worn.

Generally speaking the most likely answer to a question is the correct answer. SPEKON makes commercial stuff for the commercial market. Turkey does not purchase uniforms from foreign sources in camouflage patterns and tailoring that are non-traditional. Therefore, the most likely conclusion is this is a 100% commercial uniform that has no ties to any military at all, Bundeswehr or otherwise.

Steve

[hoover]

The jacket is a repro/fake item.

The items are made in Asia and the label are not belonging to the jackets.

There were also sold trousers and blouses in that camo pattern.

[Marc Sherriff]

The jacket is a repro/fake item.

The items are made in Asia and the label are not belonging to the jackets.

There were also sold trousers and blouses in that camo pattern.

Getting closer to my original post of 'Fake made in China'.

Marc

[darkhunter]

Ok i checked with a euro militaria collector, he said its not chinese fake becuase it too well done and he said the late 90s Croation Army it only was made for a few months then it was discontinued.

[Gene T]

There may be some Turkish connection to all of this after all:

http://arsiv.zaman.com.tr/1996/10/07...l/ekonomi.html

Google translate doesn't do a great job with Turkish, so it's rather painful to read through the above. However, the relevant passage is this:

"Leave the country with the economic crisis in 1994, wanting to hang acilarak Yegin this crisis, the Central Asian and European markets and tries to define in detail. Decision in Germany, is a public institution to be privatized. Yes, Senol Yegin, are creating an international market for an investment had said yes. Czech Republic on the border with Germany, parachute and producing a uniform Spekon GmbH, the German Privatization Administration bought the 100 thousand mark. Hitler, 2 World War II, gives an order to fulfill the textile factory, parachute manufacturing processes until and since then parachute factory and military clothes are produced. Successful projects include R & D department in 1995 as a result of the new parachute Spekon varieties, balloons and special tents for the preservation of open air tanks are made of long-term."

This Tukish enterprise, "Yegin Dis Tik", the producer of "Polar" brand uniforms, counts SPEKON as one of its foreign assets (which they presumably acquired circa 1994-95)!

http://www.hellotrade.com/yegin-dticaret/


Curiously, SPEKON's own website only talks about their parachute-making legacy and prowess, and says virtually nothing about their other textile products or hints at any ties with Yegin.

This doesn't change anything that's been discussed so far, but it adds another interesting little twist to the whole story.

If a Turkish speaker can contact Yegin at their listed phone number on hellotrade (or talk to SPEKON for that matter), I suspect we can go a long way towards solving this mystery once and for all.

This is not exactly hard-to-trace vintage stuff.



Gene T

[Marc Sherriff]

(or talk to SPEKON for that matter),

Gene T

I have already sent two messages tp SPEKON asking about the uniforms, as yet no reply.

Marc

[darkhunter]

I mean the way the woodland camo design of it looks like turks army but i have a other collector i know says it croation i lean more towards turks. i have a few turkish army jackets.

[Collectinsteve]

I don't tink these were made in China. At least not the initial batch. I have some Chinese made Flecktarn items from the early 1990s and they are obviously made in China To me, these were made in Germany or Europe.

If they were used by any country, at all, I have never seen any proof of it. Rumors and theories? Plenty of those.

Now, could they have been made for the commercial market and then wound up in the Balkans? Absolutely. I was in Austria and Germany in 1992 and talked to surplus shop owners about Croats coming up with empty cars and cash, leaving with no cash and full cars. Uniforms, boots, ammo cans, backpacks... whatever. So I wouldn't be surprised to know that someone got a bunch of these uniforms later in the conflict. But one should never confuse "used by" with "produced for".

A German company could not have any official connection to military items winding up in the Balkan conflict. It was very illegal to supply them and the fines were, IIRC, massive. One of the shop owners I spoke to said he refused to sell things to Croats because he didn't want to get in trouble. I remember a couple of high profile seizures, such as some automatic weapons out of Switzerland.

About that website... is it saying a Turkish company purchased SPEKON?

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

I have 4 or 5 different types of Turkish woodland uniforms, including the mint green colored type. I have also had the SPEKON uniform in my hands at one point probably 10 years ago. I've got a folder of pictures of SPEKON uniforms sold in various woodland patterns. Some of which were made as recently as 1998. They have Bundeswehr type tags in them and are in the Bundeswehr cut.

There may be a link between the SPEKON cloth and Turkish cloth, but not the uniforms. There can be many different explanations for this, including SPEKON purchasing (or if owned by Turks, receiving) surplus cloth to turn into commercial products. This is a standard way of getting rid of surplus cloth. Or it could be that SPEKON made the cloth for the Turks and, for some reason, had some left over that they made into commercial items.

Whatever the case, the SPEKON uniforms are not Turkish government items. They are also not experimental Bundeswehr uniforms. As far as I know they were not used in any official capacity by any military other than possible low level usage, such as OPFOR training in the BW or purchases by Croats desperate for clothing.

Here is a picture of two genuine Turkish uniforms with the mint green cloth. Four pocket on the left is a more modern cut (I think) and two pocket on the right (traditional cut):



Steve