Bundeswehr Tunic: Help and info wanted!

[Jan Klaassen]

Hello fellow forum-members!

As my avatar also suggests, I'm a collector of DDR/NVA militaria, and usually don't have to ask too much in other sections.
However, in a set on ebay, which contained a NVA jacket I needed, there was this Bundeswehr jacket as well.

Here are the pictures, to start with:




So, all information on this item is welcome! I would like to know;
-What it is (I guess an officer of some land force, but what specifically. And what rank, what section of the armed forced (waffenfarbe?), and what does the shield on the left sleeve stand for?)
-How old it is (my own NVA-knowledge tells me that this sort of sleeve must be some older jacket. This, combined with the seller saying it's from 1964, makes me think it's mid-60's :P. Could this be right?)
-Is this worth something? (I have no idea ) And if so, how much?

And do please tell everything else there is to know ^^ I'm very curious, even though it's not my cup of tea usually!

I do not have further pictures yet. They can be made once the package arrives here, which will be in (I guess) about 2 weeks from now

[Gordon Craig]

Jan,

The tunic belonged to a Panzergrenadier, green waffenfarbe. There are/were individual regiments who were referred to as Infantry and they would have worn the same coloured waffenfarbe.
It is probably an early 1964 tunic. Things that point to this are;
1-darker colour than later tunics;
2-turned up cuffs on the sleeves. Later in the 60s they went to fals cuffs and eventually abandon the cuffs altogether;
3-the buttons appear to be the early type which have a flat edge rather then come to a sharp edge as later ones did;
4-rounded end shoulder boards which came into wear in 1963.

The shoulder bagde is not old because of the shape of the eagle. It is still in use today. The red border on the arm badge indicates he was assigned to the Sicherungs- und Versorgungsregiment im BMVg. Or in English the Security and Supply regiment of BW HQ.
The rank is that of Oberstleutnant.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jan Klaassen]

Thanks for the info! I'll take some more pictures when it arrives.

I do have one more unanswered question. As I would like to know whether I've bought these two jackets for good value: how much would such jacket be worth (as an early-1964 dated Oberstleutnant tunic)? The seller says it's 'konfektionsgrosse 106' (whatever that might be ^^ as a Dutch person, I have no idea x))... Is that big (East German 56/60), tiny (East German 44), or somewhere in between :P?

Second, when you say the badge isn't old (the arm shield?), do you mean it's put on later or something?

Thanks!

[Gordon Craig]

Jan,

To answer your questions;
1-you mentioned that you bought two jackets but only one is pictured. There is a similar tunic to the one pictured here on ebay.de and the auction ends in just over 5 hours. It has blue piping and comes complete with the older dress pants with a blue stripe down the outside of the leg. It also has a small three place ribbon bar on it. It is dated 1971. The size was listed as 95/102. The present bid on this uniform is euros 15.00. The colour of the waffenfarbe doesn't seem to affect the cost of the tunics very much. It will probably go for 20 to 25 euros max.
I am not sure what the seller of your tunic means by 'konfektionsgrosse 106'. BW sizes are usually marked in the tunics with a small white tag at the neck and an average size for a tunic would be in the 25 to 27 range. I'll try to take some comparison pictures of tunics showing the size tag at the neck and the makers label which could have other tunic size information on it. A 25 to 27 sized piece would fit me and I am not a big man.
Sorry but my comment about the arm badge not being old was due to a bit of confusion on my part. You were talking about the age of the tunic because of the cuffs and I thought that you were referring to the eagle on the arm badge. You can disregard that comment.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jan Klaassen]

Thanks for the infos!

The seller states that there is no indication of size... Could it be tailored?

Further, for now, I think it's not very usefull for me to make any more comments on the tunic as long as I haven't made additional pictures of it. We'll have to wait ^^ I'll take some as soon as it arrives, so we can examine it more carefully (if necessary)...

The other tunic that was in this lot, I didn't picture it here because it was a nice NVA Wachregiment soldiers jacket, and didn't fit in this part of the forum ^^

[Gordon Craig]

Jan,

It is possible that there would be no sizes in the tunic. I looked at two in my collection that were about the same age as the one you have just bought. One had sizes in the pocket the other didn't. Don't have time to take pictures of my stuff today. Busy pttinga new ceiling fan in my master bathroom.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jan Klaassen]

Thanks Gordon!

There's no hurry behind any pictures ^^ I haven't got any more information as well...

What I was wondering this morning; is there a market for these jackets? I'm certainely going to sell it when it arrives, but is there any chance of it getting sold for a proper price on ebay or something?

[Gordon Craig]

Jan,

You don't see these older jackets outside of ebay.de. Like most things, something is worth what someone will pay for it. If you want to see it I would suggest you try the estand on the WAF as a good place to list it.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jan Klaassen]

Thanks. I'll update the topic with new pictures when the tunic arrives!

Thanks for the help so far

[Jan Klaassen]

'nTag!

I've received the jacket today (pictures will follow tonight or tomorrow), and it is quite large
After trying it on, I guess it has a size comparable to an East German G (perhaps even SG) 54 or 56... So do you know what that would be on the West German scale (25, 26, 27 etc) that you mentioned earlier?
There really is no size-marking in it, but there is a tailors-tag... Which will be shown soon enough with pictures ^^

[Towarish]

'nTag!

I've received the jacket today (pictures will follow tonight or tomorrow), and it is quite large
After trying it on, I guess it has a size comparable to an East German G (perhaps even SG) 54 or 56... So do you know what that would be on the West German scale (25, 26, 27 etc) that you mentioned earlier?
There really is no size-marking in it, but there is a tailors-tag... Which will be shown soon enough with pictures ^^

Hi there,

the sizes 25, 26, etc. are so called "untersetzte Größen"
Those sizes are a bit different than a 50, 52, etc.

The "untersetzte Größen" are perfect for guys with short legs and a small belly (not fat) but with a normal overall apperience.

So if you want to compare a 52 - 54 to a 25-26 check this out:

26 27
Brustumfang 105–108 / 109–112
Bundumfang 97–100 / 101–106
Gesäßumfang 113–116 / 117–120
Körpergröße 175–178 / 177–180

52 54
Brustumfang 102–105 / 106–109
Bundumfang 90–94 / 95–99
Gesäßumfang 106–109 / 110–113
Körpergröße 177–182 / 180–184
The international size for this example is Large.

Cheers,
Philipp

[Jan Klaassen]

Thanks.

It is for a real 'fatty' I think x)

Let's put it this way:
I'm about 185cm and 'normal-bellied'. The sleeves are long enough, but really very much too wide, as is the jacket itself. You could put me almost 2 times in that.
Think that overall this jacket was used by someone about 185-190 cm tall, and quite fat... ^^
Is that description any use? Or is there a simple comparison to make between SG56 (east german) and any west german size?

[Towarish]

Hello,
the Bundeswehr sizes are of course different.
I was talking about civilian sizes since those are common for suits of all kinds.

A Bundeswehr size 26 would be a XXL which is a 58 for civilian clothes.

East German G56 is a Bundeswehr 11 and civilian 56.

Anyways, the Konfektionsgröße 106 is like a 54 just for tall guys.

Cheers,
Philipp

[Jan Klaassen]

Ah right, so the Konfektionsgrosse did make sense ^^
I had someone else fit is as well, and we concluded it must be a 54 for 185-190cm tall people...

Thanks all for the help! Pictures will be added tomorrow, just for the record perhaps.

[Gene T]

SprogCollector put together this size chart for the earlier BW uniforms two and a half years ago:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=332417


Based on your descriptions, your tunic could have been a size 42, or perhaps it was "off scale" and had to be custom tailored - hence no size tag.



Gene T