Hi Seewolf,
If my comments were taken as an argument, they were not intended that way.
As to the tunic, I simply believe the evidence will not support this being a Bundesmarine item. I will offer the following as points that can be viewed from the other perspective:
- Tunic BM style
I would offer that a double-breasted dark blue jacket is worn by nearly all navies, as well as a wide variety of merchant and civil nautical agencies. I would disagree with BM style as it does not present with the correct configuration of buttons. British, Dutch, French, and Danish navies all wore 8 button jackets, along with WSP and HM.
- 16mm Kolbenringe very early BM style
The 16mm rank lace was used by the BM until 1972 (when replaced by 14mm). It can be seen on WSP and Handelsmarine tunics into the 1990s (the last dated examples that I have seen) and might still be in use.
- 8 buttons instead of the usual 6 buttons
Correct configuration for WSP and Handelsmarine. Not correct for Bundesmarine.
- typical BM tailor
Many tailors provide unifoms to many agencies. I have several Handelsmarine caps made by the same makers (and same label) as Bundesmarine caps. I would have expected a "KleiderKasse" marking on the label.
- made 6.11.62
Clearly a postwar uniform -- the date is/was never in question.
Assmann buttons:
provides knöpfen to the military as well as many other agencies.
My point here is that there is nothing about the uniform indicating is belongs to any particular organization. We have a naval-style jacket with 16mm rank lace from 1962. No name to attach to a Bundesmarine, Handelsmarine, or Wasserschutzpolizei officer.
If you had posted photos of the jacket with just 6 buttons visible, I would have suggested Bundesmarine.
Considering there are at least two known German agencies (HM and WSP) that wore/wear naval-style jackets with 8-button fronts; were in existence during the time period this uniform was produced; and does not match the pattern of uniform worn by the Bundesmarine in the 1960s. What is the likely purpose of such a uniform? A fashion statement by a relatively low-ranking officer or the uniform of another agency?
Remove the line star and how do you view the jacket? Here is the current version of the WSP uniform
Notice still the same 8-button jacket as before WW2.
I offer the above for discussion purposes.
Chris
If my comments were taken as an argument, they were not intended that way.
As to the tunic, I simply believe the evidence will not support this being a Bundesmarine item. I will offer the following as points that can be viewed from the other perspective:
- Tunic BM style
I would offer that a double-breasted dark blue jacket is worn by nearly all navies, as well as a wide variety of merchant and civil nautical agencies. I would disagree with BM style as it does not present with the correct configuration of buttons. British, Dutch, French, and Danish navies all wore 8 button jackets, along with WSP and HM.
- 16mm Kolbenringe very early BM style
The 16mm rank lace was used by the BM until 1972 (when replaced by 14mm). It can be seen on WSP and Handelsmarine tunics into the 1990s (the last dated examples that I have seen) and might still be in use.
- 8 buttons instead of the usual 6 buttons
Correct configuration for WSP and Handelsmarine. Not correct for Bundesmarine.
- typical BM tailor
Many tailors provide unifoms to many agencies. I have several Handelsmarine caps made by the same makers (and same label) as Bundesmarine caps. I would have expected a "KleiderKasse" marking on the label.
- made 6.11.62
Clearly a postwar uniform -- the date is/was never in question.
Assmann buttons:
provides knöpfen to the military as well as many other agencies.
My point here is that there is nothing about the uniform indicating is belongs to any particular organization. We have a naval-style jacket with 16mm rank lace from 1962. No name to attach to a Bundesmarine, Handelsmarine, or Wasserschutzpolizei officer.
If you had posted photos of the jacket with just 6 buttons visible, I would have suggested Bundesmarine.
Considering there are at least two known German agencies (HM and WSP) that wore/wear naval-style jackets with 8-button fronts; were in existence during the time period this uniform was produced; and does not match the pattern of uniform worn by the Bundesmarine in the 1960s. What is the likely purpose of such a uniform? A fashion statement by a relatively low-ranking officer or the uniform of another agency?
Remove the line star and how do you view the jacket? Here is the current version of the WSP uniform
Notice still the same 8-button jacket as before WW2.I offer the above for discussion purposes.
Chris
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