Alkero M43 officers cap

[AGFA40]

http://link.marktplaats.nl/365735942

[AGFA40]

Hi all,

Is this a Bundeswehr cap made by Alkero.
Its discriped as a WW2 tank cap.
If its Bundeswehr i like to quality of the fabric

Thanks

[Asbjoern]

Jep ! Depending on the pictures this is a M56 hat in the officers grade version ! In contrast to the EM/NCO grade version which is made of a relatively coarse fabric these are made of very fine gabardine loke fabric. Some crossed swords plus a cockade from the spare box would make a nice hat again...

Jens

[SprogCollector]

IMO the cap is some type of postwar, paramilitary cap. The BW did not use any type of black M56 cap that I'm aware of. Also, the BW caps use the same fabric for both officer and enlisted caps. Other than piping to the crown, there is no difference between them.

[Collectinsteve]

Is it black or is it just the lighting of the picture? Obviously if it is black it's not a standard issue BW cap. The other thing is this has silver buttons, whereas my 1956 dated officer's example has Altgeld buttons (which are correct). Someone might have put them on, but I think the more likely explanation is Feuerwehr (Fire Department).

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

To me the cap picture is too small to make any constructive comments. The label inside the cap would tell us for sure if the cap were war time or post war. Because of the rarety of these caps I would suspect it to be BW but without better pictures it could be anything.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Unfortunately the auction is over and the original pictures inaccessible (at least I couldn't figure out how to see them!). However, for those who did see them here is a Feuerwehr hat for comparison:





Thick black wool, similar to wartime production, with silver braid around the crest and two silver buttons for the flap. This is pretty close to what the auction showed. The difference is the auction hat had internal construction similar to an early BW M43 hat, while this Feuerwehr hat is just simple cloth.

This is the only Feuerwehr item I have and even this one was supposed to go to a friend a couple of years ago before he ran into money troubles. Therefore, I have no other FW items to compare against.

Steve

[SprogCollector]

I didn't download the photo from the listing but the grey leather sweatband and the plastic crown protector/makers info were/are typical of postwar M43/56 type caps. The photo didn't give a good representation of the wool texture. I thought the silver piping too thick for wartime and similar to the Feuerwehr cap shown above.

The plastic maker label in the crown was not the usual diamond shape -- being rounded on one end and pointed on the other. There were not many lines of info on it and did not appear to have the manufacture date on it.

The clarity of the crown label was such that I took it to be modern plastic/vinyl rather than wartime celluloid.

Moot point as the listing is now gone.

[Collectinsteve]

I just realized the cap in the auction is probably this one, which I have in my collection:





The cap is made by Alkero, has a leather sweat band, and the other features match.

Mine is a very dark blue. Easily confused with black. The fabric appears to be the same, both in type and in color, to a Luftwaffe "Gala" uniform I have. I've not had figured out what this hat is, but that's the closest match I can find for it. Does anybody know if early on the Gala (formal dress uniforms) had M43s to match?

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Hats were never worn with the gala uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Gordon,

That's what I thought. But it's really odd that this cap is of the same color/material. Must be coincidence of some sort.

Steve

[kapitein]

Black M43 / M56

Can you BW experts take a look at this german made cap and tell us what era it is and for what organisation?
Its black with golden trim, the 3R insignia was added later and is copy.
Maker is a known one for WW2 caps, shield is old and brittle.
Construction is very nice and of very high quality. (no vents or grey leather capband typical BW era)
Belief is that its not wartime Heer but early BW? - did they use black caps? Is this true?

This is the cap:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=580419

(also compare with this unknown cap with golden buttons but in blue?
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=577268)

Thanks!
Kapitein

[Gordon Craig]

kapitein,

I have never seen a post war cap with a sweat shield that is cracked and broken like this one. Post war caps used a softer material. Some of the sweat shields in caps in my collection are definitely drying out none have exibited the brittleness of your cap. Early BRD caps did use the diamond shaped sweatshield so that is of no use in identifying the cap. It is not Bundeswehr as they never wore black caps. The only organization in post war Germany (West Germany) that I could possibly relate this cap to would be Deutschbahn. Their caps are black, use gold buttons and had a metal cocakde in some instances. They also used woven gold metalic thread around the crown of some of their caps. If this is a post war cap it is a very early one. Numerous caps used in the early days of West Gemany were of war time manufacture. The chances of you identifying this cap conclusively are very slim.

Regards,

Gordon

[kapitein]

Thanks Gordon for your reply
Thats also what I was thinking, this is a very early cap and not BW, maybe some kind of early pre 50's civil organisation or maybe even war time related.
The diamond sweatshield is indeed very brittle and celluloid type of material
Indeed possible early Bahn but who knows... its a very well made cap of very high quality
Hope that someday we can find out what use it had
kapitein