Looks like the guy in post 14 on the right wears a US Cold Weather Helmet Liner and not the BW Model.
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BOth of the Bundeswehr soldaten wore their own BW winter hats. I wore my own "Snoopy hat" as it fit better under the helmet. Though I did so some deals with our sleeping bags, far warmer than the BW issue, though I did like the arms in the BW. Came in handy when we had to ride in the Kubels with no heat to conserve gas on the way to and from Graffenwohr.Comment
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Reviving this thread to add a little more information and to ask a question.
Today received a set of 9/58 dated light winter overtrousers identical to the 1959 example on the previous page. Which means the lighter type predated the heavier type in included in the previous page along with a shot of it in use (1960). This got me thinking.
I'm wondering if the light weight over trousers were intended for Gebirgsjäger and the heavier type more universal BW. The primary reason is the earlier type have adjustment straps at the ankles similar to the ones of the GJ anorak wrists and the experimental GJ Splittertarn trousers. The later type of over trousers has button adjustments around the same time that the GJ anorak changed over to button adjustments on the wrists.
So do others think that the lighter weight over trousers are in fact GJ Windhose, not general issue Winterhose?
SteveComment
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the heavy cotton "mystery trousers" in Filzlaus cut from 1959 are not winter trousers, but the trousers from the Kampfanzug "Zwischenlösung" (or "Übergang"), a short lived replacement for Splittertarn before Filzlaus was produced/entered full production. However in praxis most soldiers went directly from Splittertarn to Filzlaus, so not sure who received it, but it appear in a few photos from the transitional period and is mentioned in some period documents.
KlausComment
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Well! What does the jacket look like? Similar to Filzlaus but in cotton? I've seen the trousers here and there (I have two), but I've never seen a jacket.
Aside from this interesting info, what are your thoughts about the over trousers. Were they general issue or only for GJ units?
SteveComment
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the jacket was supposedly the parka worn without the liner and there was no seperate jacket pattern. This seem supported by period photos, that show it worn always with parkas without liner (there were already parkas produced 1958 with slight differences from later ones, which fall with the time of first production for these trousers).Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post
Not know for the overtrousers. I thought, that the later ones were mainly for drivers, vehicle crews, etc. who remain stationary for long times... but for the earlier model not really sure? Not think have seen in photos, but have not looked.
KlausComment
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OK. So here's the thing that confuses me. The cotton BW trousers are very closely based on US "Trouser, Shell, Field, M-1951", which is a winter uniform that could be worn with or without a liner. I also have only seen pictures of the BW trousers being worn with a parka and your information seems to confirm there wasn't a cotton field jacket to match the trousers. I have both and the cloth is the same, as far as I can tell. This is why I thought of it as intended for winter use.
However, it also makes sense that the BW intended the new system would mimic the Splittertarn concept of an all year oversuit with removable liners for warmer times. It's a dumb idea, but they apparently weren't ready to let it go
Thanks for the new info and I'll stop thinking of the trousers as winter type and instead a temporary "stopgap" between major uniforms.
Back to the over trousers. This design makes sense when you consider that the Filzlaus trousers are wool and therefore inherently warm but not great for very windy or stationary conditions in cold or very cold weather. But covering the trousers with a tight weave cotton over trousers and you have a pretty good cold weather uniform system when combined with a parka.
As for who received them and why, the parkas are easily found and the trousers are not, which indicates the trousers were not general issue. The lack of easily found photos of them in use appears to back up that theory. More selective purposes, such as non AFV vehicle crews is a possibility for sure, though I would expect to see more on the market than I have. GJ specific use is another possibility as we do know they received special purpose uniforms from the very beginning of the BW history. The trousers also have similar fasteners as found on known GJ 1950s and 1960s items.
Thanks for helping revive interest in a nearly 10 year old thread
SteveComment
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