Early ZB and THW items

[Gordon Craig]

Hoover,

Interesting tool. Thanks for posting these photos.

Regards,

Gordon

[hoover]

Here I have another nice item:


Einsatzanzug (working suit) of the "Katastrophenschutz-Post".


The small sleeve patch


The label of the jacket (same like the trousers). All "Post-KatS" clothings had their own labels with "Post" markling.

The Bundespost (Federal Post Service) and the Bundesbahn (Federal Railway) had thgeir own Katastrophenschutz-Organisations.

Short terms were "Post-Schutz" or "KatS-Post" and "Bahnschutz" or "DB-KatS".

The larger facilities, gibber Post-offices and railway-fabrics had units built up from the employees. They had to train a few days a year for that task.
In war they had to protect their facilities in terms of fire service and (most important) they had to keep their facilites in working condition.

Both KatS (Katastrophenschutz) organisations were disbanded in between 1990 and 1994.

[Gordon Craig]

hoover,

You are really broadening our knowledge in this field. Keep up the good work.
I have another THW piece of headgear to add to the thread. A beret with a metal THW badge.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The label in the beret.

[hoover]

The berets were introduced in the early 90´s.
But this is the first beret I see with THW-ordering number (Auftragsnummer).

The THW in my hometown got the standard black Bundeswehr berets.

[Guardian 5]

Team - This has to be one of the most interesting and informative threads I've encountered on the WAF.

Many of the uniforms were previously unknown to me and the organizational information is incredible - what an awesome resource.

That being said, I'm sure there's more than one reader out there who was crushed to learn that his "mint, early war DAK breadbag" is in fact a post-war ZB model (an uncommon and collectible piece in its own right.....)

Again, what a great thread. Thanks!

All the best - TJ

[Guardian 5]

Team - This image appeared on a different thread, but I thought it appropriate to post it here as well.

All the best - TJ

[hoover]

Time to get into the colours.

The standard colour for the LSHD ("Organisationsfarbe" or colour of organisation) was RAL 7008 kahkigrau

The colour of the THW was RAL 5002.

IN the beginning all verhicles of the LSJD carried the RAL7008, the fire fighting vehicles, too. But the German firefighting assosiation complained. All fire fighting vehicles should have the same colour. So from 1954 on all vehicles were repainted in RAL 3003 rubinrot glänzend (dark red glossy).
From 1956 the red was changed to RAL 3000 feuerrot (fire red).

When the LSHD was disbanded in the years 1968 to 1970 all vehicles were repainted in the new colours, like blue of the THW or white for DRK and the other medical services.


This pic was taken in 1967. The vehicle is a TLF8 on Unimog chassis. The aide is already wearing the new grey suit. And he is wearing the standard German fire service helmet in black. This was common for the later years end of the 60´s because the white plastic helmet was not safe for fire service.

On the licence plate you see the Landkreis (county) of Warburg (Nordrhein-Westfalen). All KatS-vehicles got a 8000-number (like here 8014). The colour of the TLF8 (Tanklöschfahrzeug, a fire fighting vehicle with a watertank) is RAL 3000.


Another very interesesting picture. It was taken in the early 60´s in an exercise of LSHD-Bergebereitschaft. You can see a section of LSHD men in the background. In the forground is a THW-section (note the armpatches). Their vehicle (not in this pic) should be dark bluse. The big exercises were held 1-2 times a year. All men are wearing gasmasks Z56 and red ABC-gloves. And note the camopuflage on the roof of the MKW (it is a Hanomag AL-28 Mannschaftskraftwagen).


Here is an actual pic of an oldtimer of this type.

[Gene T]

Interesting photos! But what's the thought process behind putting camouflage material on a civilian rescue vehicle? I would think that in a conflict situation, any non-combatant organization would want its vehicles to be as easily distinguishable from military vehicles as possible when viewed from the air or at a distance? It seems odd to go through the trouble of making your truck look like a partial tree, only to have it surrounded by a bunch of guys wearing giant white helmets.

Gene T

[hoover]

Yes, Gene , you are right.But in the 50´s and 60´s the minds went different.

The Zivilschutzkorps (in Western Germany as like in the DDR) were considered as totally non-military, so they used the international sign for civilian defence.



On the right is the international sign. But many countries used a different sign or colours. But the protection in war time should be given.

Little story for the German sign: When the West German Zivilschutz was founded the officials got the wrong colours, so it was not orange but yellow. That´s it.

Okay, back to the topic.

The LSHD and the other organisations in Western Germany wer official non-military organisations. But in wartime they were afraid that these units could be become targets of the enemy, too. So they used khaki uniforms and colours for their vehicles and equipments. And the organsiations was a littöle bit para-military (don´t know the english term, in German we say "paramilitärisch"). The units were not armed, but had a strongly military organisation. Stupid, that they got white helmets...

That was areason why the LSHD changed to grey uniforms in the mid 60´s. After 1972, when the LSHD was disbanded the Bundesländer (like Bavaria) got their own catastrophy service. And the Bundesländer painted their vehicles orange then!


That is a ABC-Dekontamination vehicle out of the 70´s.

The DDR-Zivilverteidigung even wore green military uniforms and were trained on weapons. So the neutrality and non-combat appearance was not very true. The Bundesrepublik changed that in the 70´s, but the DDR never.

[hoover]

I will add a few infos to the signs.

On the right is the international sign for civilian defence. In the middle is the "ZB" sign. It is the abbreviation for "Ziviler Bevölkerungsschutz", the first name for the German civilian defence. That name was changed in 1966. From that on it was called "Zivilschutz", hence the new sign "ZS" on the left.

[Gordon Craig]

hoover,

"paramilitärisch" is the same in English "paramilitary".
Great vehicle pictures and good historical background on colours, insignia etc.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

It is time to expand a little about some of the uniforms that Steve posted. I am going to go back and start with the 1963 Grey called the Einsatzanzug "Pilot". There are actually three destinct types of these suits. The first one, as Steve mentioned earlier, is way over engineered and much too complicated although simplified somewhat from the brown suit issued from 1957 until 1962. The double layer of cloth on the shoulders, to provide protection from wet weather, covers the breast pockets and buttons into place. The front opening is closed with plastic buttons that are bttoned twice to provide a more wind proof jacket. There are buttons under the collar for a hood but I do not have the hood.

[Gordon Craig]

The top pocket. No zipper as in the 1957 jacket.

[Gordon Craig]

The pants. Both the pants and jacket are very heavy.