Wartime Pilot/Postwar Fliegerbluse

[Rick C]

Interesting insight on the sidecap. Should've 'guessed' that the wartime pattern would continue of officers having piped caps.

Now I really want a bullion visor to add to this set since there's no point in keeping the sidecap affiliated with the uniform. Any suggestions where I might find & what I should be expected to pay for a nice bullion visor?

[Kondor]

Hate to say it!

I've seen a lot of 50's - 60's peaked hats on ebay. An officers usually runs about 40-50 dollars depending on the size.

Hope this helps!

[Rick C]

It does. If anyone has one with bullion insignia they're putting up for adoption, please keep me in mind. RC

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hello Rick,

Thanks for acceding to my request and posting the uniform.

Sprogcollector is right, but it's still a nice sidecap. You can pick-up appropriate schiffchen and schirms on ebayde or, if you are prepared to spend the money, Steffan has them fairly regularly on his lists.

The actual tunic and trousers are the clincher, though. From my perspective this is a real 'one-off'. Impossible to up-grade.

It's probably best described as 'gala' dress (in an English-sense). I don't see an issue with the post-war wings, given that he was an 'Old eagle' and therefore unlikely to be assigned to active flight duties in the post-1955 Bundesluftwaffe. The 1957 awards are all good (as far as I can tell) and would have been worn in this order of dress only.

Great items. Thanks so much for taking the trip over to this end of the Forum and sharing them with us.

Best regards,

Hugh

[SprogCollector]

My only question on this tunic would be whether or not the Luftwaffe cuff titles should be present? I've only seen two other examples and both had them.

[SprogCollector]

It does. If anyone has one with bullion insignia they're putting up for adoption, please keep me in mind. RC

You'll definitely want to be aware of teh age of any visor you consider. The newer ones are dark blue rather than the blue-grey used on the earlier uniforms.

I don't belive the Luftwaffe is wearing the visor caps any longer. The last update to their uniforms catalog only shows the sidecap or beret.

[RamJet]

We still wear visor caps on special occasions.

[Hugh Zillmann old]

My only question on this tunic would be whether or not the Luftwaffe cuff titles should be present? I've only seen two other examples and both had them.

Hi Chris,

Were they gala uniforms? I'm curious, because I'm a bit uncertain on the precise orders of dress upon which the cufftitles would appear. Do you have anything in your references which would indicate when (upon what orderes of dress) the cufftitles should/would appear?

Cheers,

Hugh

[Rick C]

Well, you guys obviously know your stuff on these post war set ups.

If any of you can help me find a visor appropriate to this uniform I would very much appreciate the help.

While very limited for space in my office where I keep my collection, I did break down & order a mannequin/form for displaying this correctly so, I would love to find the correct visor (preferably in bullion) to finish off this display. Drop me a note if there's anything out there.

Thanx guys, Rick C.

[SprogCollector]

Hi Hugh,
The pattern of Gesellschaftanzug shown is the first pattern, introduced (according to Kunstwadl) in 1962. It was replaced in 1973 by a tuxedo-inspired (dinner jacket) design similar to the US military mess-dress uniform. So I'd be comfortable presuming this early pattern was intended for the same purpose -- formal/ceremonial occassions.

As to the cuff titles, I've only seen a few examples of this style jacket and they did have them on. There's a photo in Kunstwadl's book and they are also present on that jacket, as well. Possibly Gordon has an example and can elaborate?

Ramjet: thanks for the info on the continued wear of the schirmmütze. The PDF file on the official Bundeswehr site only shows the navy as still wearing the visor hats.

[Gordon Craig]

Phoenixpwb,

A question. Was the label you found in the jacket or the pants?

Regards,

Gordon

[SprogCollector]

Gordon,
I think the label shown is for the sidecap. Size 54

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hi Gordon,

Welcome home!

I'm with Chris on the label. It's got all the hallmarks of a cap label.

The curious thing for me is the absence of any labels on the tunic and trousers. This leads me to suspect that they were privately tailored and the labels have been removed to 'protect' the anonymity of the original owner. After all, his name would/should have been affixed in the tailoring process.

Phoenixpwb, have a close look for perforations on any internal pockets of the tunic and in and around the waist-band of the trousers. These are always the sites for tailor's labels. Also, if you are interested, Stephan has a very nice schirm and sidecap for BLW offizier on his site at the moment (I think the schirm is Euro35 and the side-cap somewhat less). They are both 'early', so would be around the timeframe of your uniform.

Regards to all,

Hugh

P.S. Gordon, I'm tracking another Bergfuhrer abzeichen, so please don't outbid me!

[Klaus1989]

Stephan has two caps that fit with you uniform., size 56 and size 59. You want caps for "Leutnant" although the uniform is Hauptmann, it is same style.

http://stephan.de/php/de_neuesfenste...76db16ab6ba6dd

This one looks a little too dark:
http://stephan.de/php/de_neuesfenste...76db16ab6ba6dd

If you want display on mannikin, you also need shirt and tie. Ties are easy on ebay.de but not sure if shirt for Gesellschaftsanzug is blue or white. Anyone know?

regards
Klaus

[Asbjoern]

(...)The curious thing for me is the absence of any labels on the tunic and trousers. This leads me to suspect that they were privately tailored and the labels have been removed to 'protect' the anonymity of the original owner. After all, his name would/should have been affixed in the tailoring process.

Its not necessary that a label was moved. My three Dienstanzugsjacken for officers ranks are all privately tailored. Two of them never had any label, one has a label saying nothing more then it was tailored from diolen fabric!

Yes, ties are not expensive...but you`l have to find a periode one first. Many are advertized only as "BW tie" as not many are intersted in those details...
Sorry to say, but last week I sold my only LW blue tie made in 1961 to a friend collecting LW only. But I can keep my eyes open...

Jens