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**Tom B** · 03-29-2016, 09:19 PM

Imo gsg 9

**Collectinsteve** · 03-31-2016, 01:30 AM

Liner, strap, chin cup, bolt type, rough texture, and stamp are all consistent with GSG-9 helmets. The only thing that is not consistent is the paint color. So while that is a little bit of a head scratcher, that doesn't change the fact that the helmet is GSG-9 and not BW.

Steve

**gp1977** · 03-31-2016, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post

Liner, strap, chin cup, bolt type, rough texture, and stamp are all consistent with GSG-9 helmets. The only thing that is not consistent is the paint color. So while that is a little bit of a head scratcher, that doesn't change the fact that the helmet is GSG-9 and not BW.

Steve

Thanks. It is not a repaint and color is the same through out. I have seen few of them on eBay in this color as well - all being sold from Germany - all in like new condition.

Here is my other "textbook" GSG-9.

**Collectinsteve** · 03-31-2016, 10:02 PM

"All like new" is something to be suspicious of in this case. I suppose it's possible that the GSG-9 got a bunch of helmets painted in gray for some reason, but someone would have to prove that case because on the surface it doesn't make sense. What makes more sense is someone stripped the helmets and repainted them since that's a fairly common thing for helmets.

Steve

**gp1977** · 04-01-2016, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post

"All like new" is something to be suspicious of in this case. I suppose it's possible that the GSG-9 got a bunch of helmets painted in gray for some reason, but someone would have to prove that case because on the surface it doesn't make sense. What makes more sense is someone stripped the helmets and repainted them since that's a fairly common thing for helmets.

Steve

Thanks but again, it is not repainted and paint is professionally applied (and has age to it) along with storage marks so any "foul play" is out of question. Still looking for an answer. Unless they were redone at an army depot.

**Collectinsteve** · 04-01-2016, 10:42 PM

Repainting a helmet does not mean leaving the original paint intact. That's just one possibility which, in this case, is not applicable. Repainting can also mean sandblasting the original paint off or using a chemical paint stripper. Once clean a new coat of paint is sprayed on. Skill and equipment needed to do this is very, very easy to come by.

Prior to the mass production of cheap M38 style helmets BW and GSG-9 helmets were altered to look like wartime helmets, either by reenactors or to fool someone into paying a lot of money for a fake. Full stripping of original paint was one of the techniques used. The same thing happened to a lot of post WW2 Polizei and BGS helmets. This is well documented.

To the best of my knowledge there's no evidence this helmet was used by BW units *ever* and I don't know of any evidence to suggest GSG-9 ever used anything but green helmets. Now, it could be that BW or GSG-9 did use it "as is", but it requires positive evidence to establish that possibility.

Another possibility is a Polizei SEK unit ordered a batch of GSG-9 helmets in gray. Bayern used a dark blue cut down BW M1 style para helmet, for example. As with BW or GSG-9 use, someone would have to show evidence of that before the theory could stand on its own. Otherwise it's nothing more than an informed, but still wild, guess.

In short all we know for absolute sure is it's a 1973 produced GSG-9 helmet and that the paint color is inconsistent with standard GSG-9 helmets.

Steve

**gp1977** · 04-03-2016, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post

Repainting a helmet does not mean leaving the original paint intact. That's just one possibility which, in this case, is not applicable. Repainting can also mean sandblasting the original paint off or using a chemical paint stripper. Once clean a new coat of paint is sprayed on. Skill and equipment needed to do this is very, very easy to come by.

Prior to the mass production of cheap M38 style helmets BW and GSG-9 helmets were altered to look like wartime helmets, either by reenactors or to fool someone into paying a lot of money for a fake. Full stripping of original paint was one of the techniques used. The same thing happened to a lot of post WW2 Polizei and BGS helmets. This is well documented.

To the best of my knowledge there's no evidence this helmet was used by BW units *ever* and I don't know of any evidence to suggest GSG-9 ever used anything but green helmets. Now, it could be that BW or GSG-9 did use it "as is", but it requires positive evidence to establish that possibility.

Another possibility is a Polizei SEK unit ordered a batch of GSG-9 helmets in gray. Bayern used a dark blue cut down BW M1 style para helmet, for example. As with BW or GSG-9 use, someone would have to show evidence of that before the theory could stand on its own. Otherwise it's nothing more than an informed, but still wild, guess.

In short all we know for absolute sure is it's a 1973 produced GSG-9 helmet and that the paint color is inconsistent with standard GSG-9 helmets.

Steve

Thank you.

I will try to find out more especially regarding non GSG 9 use of those helmets - KSK, SEK and Polizei.
Also were the GSG-9 helmets ever used with helmet covers ?

**Collectinsteve** · 04-03-2016, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by gp1977 View Post

Thank you.

I will try to find out more especially regarding non GSG 9 use of those helmets - KSK, SEK and Polizei.

I wish you happy hunting because, sadly, there's not much in the way of documentation of this sort of stuff. Which stinks because I like knowing what I have and I have a lot of stuff that I don't know who used it

Also were the GSG-9 helmets ever used with helmet covers ?

As far as I know they did not use covers. At least I can't recall seeing a picture with a cover in use. However, it appears the covers do exist.

Last year some brand new helmet covers came onto the market so I bought one. It's BGS blue-gray type cloth and the construction looks correct, but it doesn't fit my helmet at all. However, mine is on the larger side so it's probable there is a smaller shell out there and the cover would fit it.

I've never seen a legitimate Sumpftarn cover for the helmet. Sumpftarn and Flecktarn covers exist only for the Titanium helmets.

Steve

**gp1977** · 05-01-2016, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Collectinsteve View Post

I wish you happy hunting because, sadly, there's not much in the way of documentation of this sort of stuff. Which stinks because I like knowing what I have and I have a lot of stuff that I don't know who used it

As far as I know they did not use covers. At least I can't recall seeing a picture with a cover in use. However, it appears the covers do exist.

Last year some brand new helmet covers came onto the market so I bought one. It's BGS blue-gray type cloth and the construction looks correct, but it doesn't fit my helmet at all. However, mine is on the larger side so it's probable there is a smaller shell out there and the cover would fit it.

I've never seen a legitimate Sumpftarn cover for the helmet. Sumpftarn and Flecktarn covers exist only for the Titanium helmets.

Steve

Thanks and will post when and if i find any info.

**juoneen** · 06-19-2016, 10:03 PM

Is this one a post war fake, or is it west german, or?

**Collectinsteve** · 06-19-2016, 10:19 PM

First glance I'd say it is the most common of the 1950s BW FJ helmets. Liner, leather, and screw heads all look to be the correct type. Man, it's in great shape though.

(edit) Oops! On second thought the liner hole configuration is not correct for the type that is similar to the wartime M38 helmet. The BW type has two very large holes on both front and back with two sets of smaller holes running through the middle. As far as I know that configuration is unique to BW helmets. The WW2 type has this hole configuration. When I wrote the first line I had it in reverse, but checking reference pics straightened me out.

Generally, a helmet in condition this good should be treated as suspect until it is proven otherwise. The stitching looks brand new. There's also no size stamp at the back of the liner, which appears to be standard for BW helmets. My vote is for recent WW2 fake.

Steve

**juoneen** · 06-20-2016, 11:28 PM

Thanks for the response.
I also thought after reading threads on west german FJ helmets, this has to be a post war repro, as I feel the same, too new no age, and the person who has it says its ww2. I don't think so, as it would also have makers writing in the liner....but it seems to be a decent repro....better than many I have seen.
I do not think it could even in my wildest imaginings , be an original helmet, but its not priced like a ww2 original, more like double the west german version.
I did want to run it by here anyway, so if anyone else has any comments more please post your opinions either way.
The west german style has the edge that runs parallel to the edge of the rim of the helmet like a US helmet did in ww2. But I did want to add that the side screws are the same in the back as the ones toward the front, two of the same , I just didn't post that shot.

**bolo** · 06-21-2016, 01:49 AM

current repro

my first thought is a modern repro from China / India

lots of these are on the market these days, sometimes people try to sell them with fake nazi decals

the foam rubber and glue look very recent / like new

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/steel-...hentic-535387/

**Collectinsteve** · 06-21-2016, 11:15 AM

The worst are the artificially aged ones, complete with stamps, rust, dents, scratches, and stained leather. Another reminder why I do not collect WW2 German stuff... if you don't specialize in knowing the tiny details you're almost certainly going to wind up buying fakes.

Steve

**Reibert-Austria** · 12-21-2016, 01:46 PM

Helmets of the GSG9/SEK´s worn in the Bundeswehr ? ? ?

Hi, mates !

Wanna show you this, obviously, GSG9, (also worn in SEK´s of the West German Police), helmet, I purchased a few day´s ago.
The pot is on it´s way and I´m permitted to show images, shot by the vendor, for his offer for sell.

Interesting, there´s BUND, (for: Bundeswehr ?), stamped above the NSN !

The NATO Stock Number, or, National Stock Number, (NSN), as it is known in the US, is a 13-digit numeric code, identifying all the standardized material items of supply, as they have been recognized by all NATO countries including United States Department of Defense.

The NSN of my helmet:
8470 - 12 - 182 - 5222

NSG, (Nato Supply Group): 84
(clothing, individual equipment, and, insignia)

NSC, (Nato Supply Class): 8470
(armor, personal)
Also, FSC, (Federal Supply Classification)

NIIN, (National Item Idetification Number): 12 - 182 – 5222
12 stand´s for Federal Republic of Germany, (Western Germany)

Were such GSG9 –helmets worn/carried in the Bundeswehr also ? …

Thx. In advance,
R.

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