BGS Camo Uniform

[Guardian 5]

Stepdale - Attached find an excerpt on your uniform from Wehrmacht Camouflage Uniforms & Post-War Derivatives by Daniel Peterson.

Peterson states that your uniform is a rare bird indeed; he only came across three of them during a 15 year span of active collecting in Germany.

Peterson classified your tunic as a BGS Tarnanzug in the BGS Splittermuster camouflage pattern. They wore worn in the early 1950s when the BGS was equipped with the old reliable Kar98k (which in many cases had to be bought back from the French occupation forces) and refurbished
M1935 helmets which were soon replaced with newly manufactured helmets of the same pattern but inferior steel (M35/52).

Condition problems or no, I commend you on your good eye and am envious that you have such a rarity in your collection. Thanks for posting the close-ups.

Take care - TJ

(no longer subject to the vagaries of the Army's reassignment process)

[Stepdale]

TJ,
Thanks for the info. I forgot I have Peterson's book. I'll have to take a look - I was in it wearing some gear as well as his SS camo book. Haven't looked at it in years.
Dale

[Guardian 5]

HOOAH!

We have a celebrity in our midst. What pages are you on? Where are you stationed in CONUS?

I love both books. Peterson has taken some criticism on some of the other forums, completely unjustified in my opinion. In the dark days before the World-Wide Web really caught on, Daniel Peterson was a pioneer. His original studies of wartime and post-war German camouflage helped lay the foundation that much of today's research is based on. My hat's off to him and to you for helping us get where we are today.

Was your early BGS tunic one of the three Peterson counted?

All the best - T.J. (U.S. Army, Retarded)

[Stepdale]

Definitely earned no celebrity on that one. I and my brother are the guys on page 36, and I'm on 37 and 43 of the Wehrmacht camo book. It sure was hot wearing the winter gear in July.

You're right, Dan had an awesome collection of camo and field gear, and he knew more than most about it. I get tired of the overcriticism of books that I see. He had some suspect items, but there's probably no one who doesn't have some in their collections. One thing I've learned in this hobby is that everyone has an opinion and you can almost never find 100% agreement on any one item.

I got the BGS tunic years after I knew Dan, so it wasn't one of the three he saw.

I'm in Bragg now but heading back to Germany this summer for the 3rd time. Wish it was as cheap as it was back in the early 90s.
Dale

[Guardian 5]

Dale - Looking good man!

I only spent 3 months at Bragg; not so fond memories of pine straw, chiggers, and Sicily DZ.

I know the Euro is smoking the greenback right now, but think of the collecting opportunities. There was alot of old BW and BGS stuff coming out of the attic and to the flohmarkt just as I was PCSing in '04.

I had two tours; 87-90 & 01 - 04. Hopefully, you'll be able to hang in the BRD for a while without lily-padding to the sandbox.

In any event, keep posting your cool stuff. You ought to be rocking our socks off with new discoveries come this fall.

Take care - TJ

P.S. - It goes without saying, but where ever you end up, stay safe.

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

The hunting isn't what it used to be and the euro will kill you. Collecting never was cheap but then again what is these days!

Dale,

Good luck in your new home in August. Too bad I leave just before you arrive.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

Gordon - As my teenage daughter would say, "Dude, you're harshing my buzz!"

Anyway, before we get too far off the topic of BGS camo, attached find a M35/53 that may have topped off Stepdale's ensemble.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

Here is the same helmet in a BGS cover.

[Guardian 5]

Here is the covered helmet positioned next to the hoods which were the subject of their own thread.

TJ

[Guardian 5]

Here is the helmet next to an M43 style hat. I'm pretty sure it's a Sturm knock-off. Nice to see the variation in camo in any event.

TJ

[Frogprince]

If I may, a couple of quick questions. With what look like two BGS field jackets (tunics ?), both by Mehler AG. The 1968 dated one has the BGS marking. But the 1971 is a little more kaki or lighter colored, also with a little more emphasis with the splinters. It also has what looked like a BGS set of patches on it which are now gone. But is “BUND” marked. Why is that?

Also info on a postwar Wehrmacht style helmet that I think is at least 20 years old. With a flat OD/green coarse finish, but not as coarse as WW II U.S. helmets. BGS, Bundesweher, or (?).

Thanks in advance for any info that you can provide. Best Regards. Fred

[Gordon Craig]

TJ,

Thanks for getting us "back on topic".

Frogprince,

I would say both your jackets were for the BGS. I have seen jackets that appeared to be slightly different as you mentioned in your post. Since the same patterns were, at least theoretically, used for all printing of the BGS cammo material they should all be identical but they are not. Same thing shows up in the BW early cammo uniforms. Only collectors would notice the slight variations! BUND markings are commonly found on items used by West German organizations other than the BW.
The flat green paint on your helmet would probably be for police although their surface tends to be smooth rather than "course" as you mention. It would be nice to see the differences in the two cammo patterns and the finish on the helmet. If you can not post pictures you can email them to me and I will post them for you.
One more thing, these post war helmets were sometimes marked on the inside with a DIN number which related to the quality of the steel in the helmet. You may want to look at yours to see if you can find any markings inside.

Regards,

Gordon

[Frogprince]

Thank You Gordon!

It will be next week before I have a chance to take out the camera and take some pictures so you can see the differences. The helmet is a little more challenging because I know that it is in a box. I just don’t know where I put the box. Or which one.

But it should be available by the time I take pictures.

Thanks Again, With Best Regards, Fred

[Gordon Craig]

Fred,

Finding things in your collection sounds just like me in mine! Some additional thoughts I have had since my last post.
1-Because both jackets bear the same makers label doesn't necessarily mean they were made by the same firm/factory. Mehler AG may have contracted out the production of the uniforms or they may have more than one location where they make the uniforms.
2-Mehler AG may not have made the cloth they used in these uniforms. More than likely they put out an RFP (Request for Proposal) for someone to supply x metres of cloth and chose the cheapest respondant. When the BMVg produces a "sealed pattern" for an item they always allow a little leeway either side of the example IE the "sealed pattern" so that manufacturers have some room to work with in choosing a material supplier. Since the two uniforms you have were made a few years apart it is quite likely that the material used in their construction came form two different sources and thus would have some slight differences.
Just food for thought.

Regards,

Gordon