BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

I agree that it is an odd shape. BW gunner's pouches do have a single strap and I would agree with you except for this picture from the site of karl-heinz-kapp.de. Sure looks like a canvas gunners pouch to me.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

They are MG gunners' pouches, but what I am not sure about, is whether they were made for that or are reused flare pouches. Until one appear for sale, will be hard to say.

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting! Well, the photo of the MG gunner standing at attention does seem to be wearing a pouch that is taller than wider and has 2 cells instead of one. But the picture is not very clear and perhaps it is not really like that.

I agree with Klaus that the pouch in the second picture does look a lot like a flare pouch. I also agree that it could be purpose made, but adapted from the flare pouch (this lowers production costs). I think that is more likely than field adaptations of existing flare pouches. The reason I say that is for sure the BGS knew that they would need a supply of MG gunner's pouches for many years to come. The picture from the previous page is sometime in the mid 1950s and therefore it is hard to imagine they would be improvising at that time (or at all).

Somewhere in my collection I have a mystery canvas pouch that looks very much the same as the pouch in the second picture in terms of size and basic function (two straps, one cell). However, it is quite crude compared to other BGS items and it is in a brownish color IIRC. I don't have any idea where it is, but I will try looking for it.

Steve

[michelwijnand]

I got some items for my Wachtmeister kit today, my 2nd pair of suspenders and a mapcase, which isn't the standard type, but seems like the same one as in the reference photo below it.

The Y-strap is different than my other one, in that all the ends of the straps don't have the horizontal sewn on "stopper", and looks like it has a original 1954 stamp doctored to look more like 34.
My other one is dated later, did early ones have no end stoppers?







Cheers,
Michel

[Collectinsteve]

Nice additions!

Yes, I am pretty sure the early type didn't have the "stoppers". At least I vaguely remember a discussion about early and late types at some point.

The field picture you posted also shows the large rucksack in use. Nice to see!

Steve

[Klaus1989]

yes, this y-straps is "1st model", which was converted to 2nd model with addition of carbine clips to replace hooks. Y-straps were not made with carbine clips until 1957, so conversions probably around this time. I have 1 like this and 2 with the original hooks (very rare). All are Franz Brehme, Walsrode 1954 marked.

The mapcase is dispatch/document case, but you see it used sometimes in field for maps also. Landespolizei used similar case. My BGS one not have the pocket on right, so not sure, if yours is BGS or Polizei.

Regards
Klaus

[michelwijnand]

Thanks, and great to read the strap is not a random fubarred duplicate of the other one I already have.
And when I zoom in on the center case in the photo, it looks like the pocket is there. Though I also have an earlier photo where it's 100% not there, so maybe both were used at some point, though th eoverwelming majority of cases I see in use are the type with the extra flap at the front.
I saw quite a few slightly different cases from police stocks when I found this one.
All had the shape of the top edge of the metal closure rounded, instead of straight like this one, and those in the photo above.
I couldn't find the standard type for a sensible price, and then when this one came up for €20, I couldn't pass it up!

I'll take some photos of how my Wachtmeister kit is progressing this weekend, when it finally stops raining for a bit, as the lighting inside is unsuitable.
I have made it with 2 MP5 pouches, and I also have the P1/P38 holster.
Though I haven't seen anyone wear a holster together with the 2 pouches, I'll hang it on there at least as an extra item.
But on which side should it be worn? Almost all holsters I see are worn on the left hip, and only a few on the right. But at the left the mapcase is obscuring the entire holster, which doesn't seem practical to me, so did they then wear it at the other side?

Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

it hard to tell, if holster worn with 2 mag pouches, but I have seen a few photos of the Beretta pouches, where that is the case. Holster is worn more toward back and always on left side.

Mapcase worn on same side as holster. To work, strap must be adjusted long enough to not hit and holster worn in front or behind mapcase. Strap usually worn under belt, but you can see both ways (like in photo from your previous post show both).

My dispatch case has bottom plate with loop round instead of square, but is also from mid 50s and sure these changed. I can post photos of mapcases later, probably have almost every variant used in 1950s.

Regards
Klaus

[michelwijnand]

Thanks for the answers. I hung it on there like his, straps below the belt, adjusted to maximum length this is where it hangs.

You might notice that the backpack in the first pic is pasted in, as I forgot to turn the backpack around between photos, and had to copy-paste a bit when I saw it later on.

Seeing as it has the wide loop shoulderboards, and is pre-green gear, I call it an early-mid 70's Wachtmeister.
Whenever I happen to find some extra suitable gear, I can continue to add to it.




Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

it is always nice to see other BGS displays done right! How the uniforms and equipment go together seem to be very misunderstood by many collectors for some reasons.

A little late, but here are all my 1950s BGS mapcases. Unfortunately all 50s Meister/officer mapcases miss the carrying straps. Can see the differences on my dispatch case.

top: 1954, 1955, 1958. bottom: 1955 (or 56?), 1956, 1958




Differences of clips and buckles by maker, from l. to r.: Karl Böcker Waldbröl (1954), Franz Brehme Walsrode (1955) and Wunderlich Berlin (1958). Dispatch case is also Karl Böcker and identical to 1954 mapcase fittings.




Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

I agree it is very nice to see the equipment worn "correctly". In my mind there might be many "correct" ways to wear equipment, but there are also "wrong" ways.

Funny, I think my officer's case is also missing its strap!

Steve

[Klaus1989]

of course, many ways to wear, but the few attempts at BGS displays I see are usually poorly informed and include West Berlin, WW2 or (worse) Sturm-Miltec things mixed together and worn very badly. Or are unlikely combinations like the Peterson book.

I have seen a few officer cases with straps, but all were late 60s and so after my collecting period.

Regards
Klaus

[ReinerMB42]

MG-Pouch

Hello Team,

yesterday I got some BGS- and LaPo Equipment, including a Signal-Ammo- and a MG-Pouch. The MG-Pouch is indeed a reused Flare-Pouch. It´s carrying strap is cut off, and a different liner is riveted in, with the pouches for the different MG-Accessories. Can´t load up the pictures, don´t know why, but I hope this answered some Questions from the before Posts.

Best regards

Reiner

[Gordon Craig]

ReinerMB42,

If you are not a paying member of the WAF you would not have the privilege of posting pictures. If you email them to me I will post them for you. I will send you a PM with my email address.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks for the post Rainer! That is indeed very interesting and pictures will be great to see.

Steve