BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Nachrichten]

Bringing this back to life because ...........................

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=607405

On Estand as WW2 vintage. Even has the reference book photo, but I'm not so sure .................

Comments please.

N

[Klaus1989]

I have been absent for long time, but decided to look at forum again today and saw this discussion from earlier this year about ribbons. I am not sure if it helps to prove that black ribbons were worn by BGS, but my 1950s BGS uniform with 57 awards has black ribbons for badges. They appear to be original to tunic and show much wear, like tunic. The are attached with loops that are exact size to ribbon bar.



And the tunic (which was posted somewhere here before). This is the 1st model of the Viertaschenrock in rough 100% wool without turned back cuffs and is very worn:

The 57 Infanteriesturmabzeichen with eagle is odd. I thought entire eagle was removed, and not only hakenkreuz.

Regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Welcome back. You have been missed! And thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

I think, after I compare with black on EKII ribbon, that backround is a dark grey and not black colour on ribbon bar.

Here are my 2 Schiffchen. The top is BGS summer Schiffchen in Drillich, worn with Arbeitsanzug in 1950s and 60s. The bottom one, not sure. I have posted long time ago here. It is BGS colour, in material like on tunics of mittlerer and gehobener Dienst and with old worn bullion Kokarde. Could be for Meister ranks (gehobener Dienst would probably have silver piping?) - maybe custom made.



Has Perküro label inside, but like clothing label in custom clothes. Never seen other like it. I am not sure that Polizei or Zoll wore Schiffchen, so that leave only BGS.

[Arthur Spooner]

Hello Klaus,

the ribbon bar on post #607 shows an Austrian variant of ribbon bar.
Typical ribbon size and non 57er miniature (ISA with eagle!).
The lower ribbon bar in post #605 shows the typical colour of the BGS.
I have seen some of them, but they are very rare.

The neutral ribbon for non ribbon awards are more grey than black and
typical used by Bundeswehr and others...

But I have heard, that not all BGS have worn the neutral ribbon in green.
So everything is OK.

Matthias.

[Collectinsteve]

I would be surprised if there wasn't cross over between BGS and BW ribbons. First, personnel did move between the two organizations. It is not crazy to think a soldier might carry something over from one to the other. Especially if he is expected to pay for the replacements! Second, we don't know how consistent the supply of ribbons were at all times. If a member of BGS needs a ribbon bar today, but can not find a supplier of the correct ribbons, I can easily see him using BW ribbons and saying "close enough".

As we all know, if there is a rule there is also an exception to the rule. Nothing should surprise us!

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Any more clues for lower Schiffchen in my above post? It bothers me, that I can not place it!

Andrew : Great info you got there from your friend ! Thanks , Bernd .
Here now one more item I found in my stuff , a peaked cap , like the M-43 style , but with a high body . Cap is of heavy green wool and dated 1958 . Size is 54 .

I remembered this cap from earlier in this thread, because I see several on ebay.de recently. These are actually Schleswig-Holsteiner Polizei - the light piping is clue - otherwise 99% identical with early BGS caps, which have darker piping. I see them always with Kokarde, not sure if S-H wore it also on their caps for a time, or someone replaced many of these with wrong insignia, because I see them on several caps from different sellers.


Regards
Klaus

[Huntzman]

Thought I would go ahead and post a link to my BGS collection for those interested in cloth insignia.

http://huntzmanpatches.com/german_bg...polizei(C).htm

Unfortunately it is a little outdated, but I hope that I will have the time now to begin getting everything listed.

[Guardian 5]

Gents,

This is a page from a discarded encyclopedia. I think the caption is very telling.

A quick look does give the impression of early World War Two garb, especially the bread bag helmet straps.

Thanks,
TJ

[Nachrichten]

Gents,

This is a page from a discarded encyclopedia. I think the caption is very telling.

A quick look does give the impression of early World War Two garb, especially the bread bag helmet straps.

Thanks,
TJ

As well as the 98k's and ammo tin for the MG. One of the reasons I love BGS ....... you can see the 'origin of the species'.

Nice posting.

N

[Collectinsteve]

This brings me to something I wanted to talk about. The BGS are out in the field with Kar98k rifles. Do we know of them using MP38/40/41 family of SMGs? I ask because I don't recall seeing them with any before, yet there's evidence there was at least intention of such use. The evidence is MP38/40/41 type pouches with BGS stamps on them stating they were intended for MP38/40.

Any thoughts?

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

This has been an ongoing question for some time now. MP38/40 pouches marked for BGS no doubt exist but I have never seen a set in wear in period photos nor an MP 38/40 being carried by a BGS soldier. In "Der BGS Geschichte der Bundespolizei" by Reinhard Scholzen there is a list weapons purchased for the BGS in Juli 1951 and the only reference to SMGs is the Italian Beretta Modell 38/42 of which he says 5479 were purchased. The book lists subsequent purchases of several different firearms. The MP 38/42 shows up in period photos of the BGS often enough that we can be sure they were issued in significant numbers.
It could be that surplus MP 38/40s, and their associated pouches, were held in reserve in case of need and never actually issued. Hence, no photos of them actually being carried. They may even have been used in the ongoing BGS equipment trials of the 1950s. Scholzen indicates that the BGS tried numerous WWII vintage weapons in trials such as the FG 42, StG 44 and the MG 42 in both 7.92 and 7.62 caliber. Someday we may actually be able to answer this question with some firm proof but for now it will remain conjecture.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting info. Thanks Gordon.

There's another theory to throw in the pile, though it is similar to Scholzen's information. It could be that during the early formation of the BGS (pre 1951) the MP38/40 was initially chosen for the SMG role. Orders were placed for a small run of pouches in anticipation of the adoption. But then, perhaps for political reasons, they decided to go with the Beretta. The pouches might have already been produced before then. They were either used up carrying around Beretta mags (as Germans did during WW2) or were not used at all.

The set of pouches in question do appear to be unissued. I'd be interested to learn if the other surviving examples look unissued.

Steve

[Marksharky]

BGS Camo Smocks

There have been tons of the old BGS camo "Rain Smocks" floating around the surplus and eBay markets for quite some time now, and there always seems to be the question of "were they actually used" by the BGS. Many of these smocks are in unissued condition and they do not seem to show up in any photos....... (as a side note, I just picked up 2 of these smocks from the Sportsman's Guide for $7 and free shipping last week. I couldn't pass up the price!).

During a recent conversation with a friend and fellow collector, who is a BGS Veteran in Germany, the topic of these camo smocks came up. He said that they were used in the 1960's and 1970's primarily, but they also used them in the 1990's when he was still in the BGS. He says "we still used some of these during exercises in the 90s to mark the bad guys. Usually the bad guys always wore the camo jackets and ponchos. "

Just thought that I would pass that little bit of BGS info on to anyone here on the forum who may be interested!

[Collectinsteve]

I've also wondered about this. I also wonder why some people think they can sell them for $30 There seems to be a never ending supply of these. Certainly there is no shortage of them on German eBay.

I figured they were a replacement for the 3 sided Zeltbahn for everyday rain protection. The Zeltbahn is a clumsy form of rain protection.

Steve