BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Collectinsteve]

Very interesting. I find it entirely plausible, even if not necessarily according to regulations. BGS liked to be similar, but distinctly different, from the Bundeswehr. Whatever the BW regulations state are not defacto applicable to BGS since they are two separate organizations.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

I believe the regulations for wearing these awards were federal and not just BW. But I do agree that BGS guys did like to do their own thing. I don't think it was always done this way but it is interesting to see this departure from regs. I was hoping someone would have a colour picture of a member of the BGS wearing green backed awards but it looks like it might be something new to everyone here as well as me.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Unfortunately color photos from this time aren't usually very good for subtle color identification. Therefore, a photo isn't likely going to do much for us.

Steve

[Arthur Spooner]

This is a typical Austrian ribbon bar with the typical ribbon width.

There exist German green ribbon bars from BGS. They are not very common,
and the most of the BGS men have worn neutral "black" ribbons as
Bundeswehr soldiers.

There do not exist German ribbon bars with neutral blue ribbons.

[LuckyLuudje]

Here pictures of a German ribbon bar belonging to Matthias that has green ribbons.
The same colour of green I have seen before 3-4 times more on BGS bars.

I also remember that a member Vince had 2 ribbon bars from a BGS member where one of the bars had dark blue ribbons while they were green on the other ribbon bar.

[speedytop]

Hi,

in the first time after the "Ordensgesetz" from 1957 there were different colours for Bundeswehr and Bundesgrenzschutz.
The BGS had a dark green textile cover, the Bw had it in grey.
In the first regulations is no colour specified. If you find something, the colour is described as "neutral".
In the very early books from Krantz and Geeb-Kirchner, both from 1958, you can find in the book from Geeb-Kirchner the notation "...auf einer neutralen Bandunterlage..." , the picture there show definitely not a black background (the picture is in b/w).
In the book from Krantz the colour in the b/w picture is darker, but not black!
The early Bw book (Taschenbuch für Wehrfragen 1959) show a coloured picture with a grey background and the same description as above.
The next Bw book from 1960 (Wehrdienstkalender 1960) show a b/w picture with a background lighter than black and the description "Ein neutrales Band von blau-grauer Farbe..." > grey/blue.

In all the other later regulations you can only find "neutral". That is normally grey in different nuances.
You can see that on early ribbon bars. Please compare the "neutral" colour with other decorations with black stripes. There is a visible difference!

On the pictures in Post 598 I cannot see the dark green, that we can find on a "Bänderkarte" (ribbon card) with original ribbons on it.

The Bw regulations ZDv 37/10 from 1972 show "... auf einer neutralen Bandunterlage ...", the next edition from 1982 show (... auf einer schwarzen Bandunterlage ...) > black.

Uwe

[SprogCollector]

Uwe,
Do you think there is any possibility that BGS interpreted 'neutral' as being a shade similar to the BGS uniform color rather than a neutral shade of grey?

In reference to the post by Arthur Spooner: I'm intriqued by his comment that the ribbons are Austrian. I have trouble believing that any form of Wehrmacht award would be tolerated on any Austrian uniform.

Chris

[Arthur Spooner]

...I have trouble believing that any form of Wehrmacht award would be tolerated on any Austrian uniform...

I have seen only pictures of Austrian veterans with ribbon bars.
When I know right it was not allowed to wear TR awards or any denazified
versions on a Austrian uniform (Bundesheer, Police, ....

For me it is a ribbon bar worn by an Austrian veteran.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

These are my only West German items, not really sure what I got as I`m more of a WWI and WWII collector, but any coments are apreciated. The Tunic I think its either a 3rd pattern or a 2nd pattern....

[Collectinsteve]

Good stuff! Yup, that's a 3rd Model jacket for sure. Made from 1967 through 1975 (possibly 76, but I forget). There's a few slight variations. Yours looks like a 1971 type with wider rank loops. Always nice to see one with intact arm pocket flap.

The Sumpftarn hat is probably commercial. I say that because there's tons of those out on the market, but the real hats are SUPER rare. Easy way to check is if it is made out of a rubberized material it is commercial. If it is made out of cotton of some sort it might be worth taking a closer look at it.

The green hat appears to be from the 1976 timeframe and, technically, wouldn't have been worn with the jacket. However, there could be more to the hat than that. Is the badge on it metal? Looks like the bullion type.

Steve

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Good stuff! Yup, that's a 3rd Model jacket for sure. Made from 1967 through 1975 (possibly 76, but I forget). There's a few slight variations. Yours looks like a 1971 type with wider rank loops. Always nice to see one with intact arm pocket flap.

The Sumpftarn hat is probably commercial. I say that because there's tons of those out on the market, but the real hats are SUPER rare. Easy way to check is if it is made out of a rubberized material it is commercial. If it is made out of cotton of some sort it might be worth taking a closer look at it.

The green hat appears to be from the 1976 timeframe and, technically, wouldn't have been worn with the jacket. However, there could be more to the hat than that. Is the badge on it metal? Looks like the bullion type.

Steve

Thanks for the infom the cap I am almost sure its comercial, the other does have a bullion cockarde fo some sort.....

[Guardian 5]

Spanish Freiwillige - Is there an area that you don't collect? You have some excellent specimens from all eras. I was just admiring your Pickelhaube a few minutes ago.

I share Steve's enthusiasm with your 3rd pattern jacket as they are somewhat difficult to find with the pocket attached.

Are you going to keep collecting to make a BDR mannequin to show off with your DDR collection?

All the best - TJ

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Spanish Freiwillige - Is there an area that you don't collect? You have some excellent specimens from all eras. I was just admiring your Pickelhaube a few minutes ago.

I share Steve's enthusiasm with your 3rd pattern jacket as they are somewhat difficult to find with the pocket attached.

Are you going to keep collecting to make a BDR mannequin to show off with your DDR collection?

All the best - TJ

, TJ, when I was yunger I could not afford orinal WWI , II militaria, so I started in surplus stores, getting what resembled WWII, so I got some west german stuff, and to tell you the truth I have thought about putting together a BDR manikin, maybe sometime in the future, right now I`m in the WWI hunt

[Gordon Craig]

Hi,

in the first time after the "Ordensgesetz" from 1957 there were different colours for Bundeswehr and Bundesgrenzschutz.
The BGS had a dark green textile cover, the Bw had it in grey.
In the first regulations is no colour specified. If you find something, the colour is described as "neutral".
In the very early books from Krantz and Geeb-Kirchner, both from 1958, you can find in the book from Geeb-Kirchner the notation "...auf einer neutralen Bandunterlage..." , the picture there show definitely not a black background (the picture is in b/w).
In the book from Krantz the colour in the b/w picture is darker, but not black!
The early Bw book (Taschenbuch für Wehrfragen 1959) show a coloured picture with a grey background and the same description as above.
The next Bw book from 1960 (Wehrdienstkalender 1960) show a b/w picture with a background lighter than black and the description "Ein neutrales Band von blau-grauer Farbe..." > grey/blue.

In all the other later regulations you can only find "neutral". That is normally grey in different nuances.
You can see that on early ribbon bars. Please compare the "neutral" colour with other decorations with black stripes. There is a visible difference!

On the pictures in Post 598 I cannot see the dark green, that we can find on a "Bänderkarte" (ribbon card) with original ribbons on it.

The Bw regulations ZDv 37/10 from 1972 show "... auf einer neutralen Bandunterlage ...", the next edition from 1982 show (... auf einer schwarzen Bandunterlage ...) > black.

Uwe

Uwe,

Thanks for all of this information on 57 ribbons on ribbon bars. Very useful stuff for the future.

Regards,

Gordon

[sammlermws]

BGS Photos

Hello everyone! Excuse me if these photos have been posted before. I got a set of CDs with hundreds of photos and wanted to show some that I haven't seen online before. There are too many to post at once so if anyone wants me to burn them a copy send me a PM. If this is too many let me know an I'll delete.