BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Klaus1989]

Did they even use the arch on dark collar uniforms? Doesnt seem to be photographic evidence for it and it was introduced when they were switching over to new uniforms. No clue why one of my tunics and my overcoat have arch stitching - maybe militaria collector added it later then removed.

When were the solid green ("moosgrün") uniforms introduced? I thought I read 1976 but not sure - this is the year all Landespolizei units changed over to green. However, I am aware uniforms do not change overnight.

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus1989,

According to the BGS web site, they switched over to "moosgrün" in 1970.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon:
According to "Historie" link on Bupo website (www.bundespolizei.de), they were still wearing old uniform in 1970 because Grenzschutzeinzeldienst adopted the graugrün uniform "like the rest of the BGS."

02.05.1970
Der Grenzschutzeinzeldienst erhält eine neue graugrüne Dienstbekleidung (wie der übrige BGS) als Ersatz für die bisherige dunkelblaue Uniform.

In 1976, they switched over to moosgrün - only Grenzschutzeinzeldienst adopted new beige trousers but rest of BGS had same colour trousers as tunic.

18.05.1976
Vorstellung der neuen bund-/ländereinheitlichen Polizeidienstbekleidung (moosgrüne Jacke, beigefarbene Hose). Im BGS werden nur die Angehörigen des Grenzschutzeinzeldienstes mit der beigefarbenen Hose ausgestattet. BGS-Angehörige mit Kombattantenstatus erhalten moosgrüne Hosen.

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

As you wish. I prefer to use the dates on the BGS site.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Klaus,

As you wish. I prefer to use the dates on the BGS site.

Regards,

Gordon

What is address for your BGS website? I cannot find it. Bundespolizei is the new website for BGS. The old official BGS website does not exist anymore. All I was saying is that 1970 sounds rather early. Couple months ago was GSG9 graugrün tunic for auction on ebay. I do not know its authenticity but if genuine, then it was after 1972 or later.

Not trying to be argumentative, just want to know why I have BGS tunic and overcoat with shield and arch traces on them - if they changed over in 1970, then that insignia should not be on the tunic.

This tiny photo on Bundespolizei website is only photo I have seen of graugrün uniform with arch on it. Just barely can make out dark green collar. Next to 1970 but photo may not be that year specifically:


regards
Klaus

[Capt. R]

Klaus
Would like to see your BGS overcoat - dark collar? officer or enlisted?

thanks

[Gordon Craig]

What is address for your BGS website? I cannot find it. Bundespolizei is the new website for BGS. The old official BGS website does not exist anymore. All I was saying is that 1970 sounds rather early. Couple months ago was GSG9 graugrün tunic for auction on ebay. I do not know its authenticity but if genuine, then it was after 1972 or later.

Not trying to be argumentative, just want to know why I have BGS tunic and overcoat with shield and arch traces on them - if they changed over in 1970, then that insignia should not be on the tunic.

This tiny photo on Bundespolizei website is only photo I have seen of graugrün uniform with arch on it. Just barely can make out dark green collar. Next to 1970 but photo may not be that year specifically:


regards
Klaus

Klaus,

Sorry for not responding earlier. I just saw this post of yours today. The picture and the date you posted were on the old BGS web site and that was what I was basing my dates on. I printed a brochure from the old BGS web site and that is what I am using as a reference now. Perhaps I was a bit hasty in saying that they all changed uniform colours at the same time. The date given for changing from the blue uniform to the green uniform (moosgrün) was for the border control Single Service. It would not seem logical to me for this small segment of the BGS to adopt the green uniform first and then have the rest of the BGS adopt a green uniform some years later. Later on in the same document it says "18.05.1976-Conception of a new service clothing green jacket, beigfarbene trousers." These two dates would indicate to me that the all green uniform would have come into wear in approximately 1970. Perhaps you could email the Federal Police and sk about the dates of change. Several years ago I sent the BGS an email with questions about two Prasidents tunics that I own and they responded with some good information. I don't have that email answer with me but the address I used then is probably not of any use any longer.
Thanks for keeping up the dialogue. The more we research together the more answers we may get. I've attached scans of the two pages from which I have quoted. I just checked the only green, dark collared tunic I have with me and it is dated 1974.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The second page.

[Guardian 5]

Gents - Just won this one, note lack of collar litzen.

Apparently undated; I'll check it over carefully when it arrives.

TJ

[Klaus1989]

Gordon:
BGS uniform dates are indeed confusing. That is the same timeline on current Bundespolizei site although I read it in the original German. Maybe all the shades of green are confusing us here! The process has three stages - breaking it down might make it more understandable:

1. The Grenzschutzenzeldienst adopted grey-green ("graugrün") uniform in 1970 to come in line with rest of BGS. Previously used blue uniforms. Now only cufftitle distinguishes them.

2. The entire BGS adopts moss green (moosgrün) uniform in 1976 to make them uniform with Landespolizei who adopted such uniform same year, although retain distinctive rank boards and collar tabs. Only Grenzschutzeinzeldienst adopts beige trousers like LAPO. Moss green trousers for rest of BGS.

3. In 2001, collar tabs are deleted and shoulderboards modified to look like LAPO. "Polizei" added to sleeve shield. (Beige trousers adopted by rest of BGS?)

http://www.bundespolizei.de/cln_043/...tml?__nnn=true

Hope that helps!

regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Klaus
Would like to see your BGS overcoat - dark collar? officer or enlisted?

thanks

Check #75 on this thread. It was missing insignia. There is no difference between officer and EM as far as I know but Grenzjäger boards were included so mine will be EM.

It is now at alterations shop having everything added - should have it back in next few weeks. Then I post more photos!

regards
Klaus

[Huntzman]

GERMAN BUNDESGRENZSCHUTZ PATCH - EBAY

Rather than start a new thread, I figured I would post this one here. Since this thread gets the most traffic.

Brace yourself before looking. Your eyes will bleed..............

By the way, in case anyone had any questions...... this is an absolute fake. As a matter of fact, I think the eagle is actually laughing......

http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMAN-BUNDESGRE...QQcmdZViewItem

[Huntzman]

Now to the uniform question. OK, for starters trying to arrive at exact dates for the institution of insignia / uniforms per German state isn't always easy.

The full transition to the Green uniform officially occurred in 1976. The new uniform design was the result of Berlin fashion designer Heinz Oestergaard. The original uniform designs were approved in 1974 if memory serves me correctly, so there was about a 2 year window for full implementation.

According to the BGS web site, they switched over to "moosgrün" in 1970.

Obviously this is a typo on the part of the webmaster, as the uniforms simply hadn't even been designed yet.

The BGS used a modified version, with green pants, probably due in part to their continued "para-military" status. However, the GSE used the beige pants like the state police for the sake of uniformity / instant recognition.

A sense of uniformity was the fundamental reason for the uniform change. At the time, police forces at the state level wore a myriad of uniforms / colors. It was the thought at the time that one should be able to travel throughout Germany and recognize a police officer whether in Berlin or Munich. So the uniforms and vehicles were all standardized.

This lasted till 2005, when the first blue uniforms began to turn up. However, not all states have taken to it. Currently Berlin, Bavaria and Saarland are the remaining holdouts, continuing to use the old green uniforms.

Sadly, each state has undertaken the "Blue Uniform Project" and has turned it into some fashion design contest. Looking at the majority of them, they are more at home on a runway, then in the grueling world of law enforcement. Not that the green ones were any better.

Andrew

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus and I had sort of abandonded this discussion because we had reached an impass. One official web site seemed to asy one thing and another official web site something else. Or at least we could interpret it that way. Since USMEDAL man has reopened the subject I went digging for my past research and found an email exchange that I had with the "Bekleidungswirtschaft im BGS" in July of 2004 with reference to the two uniforms I will picture below. The first comments were made on the uniform of Präsident Lothar Pusch and it says; "This uniform was worn from the beginning of the 70's till 3 years ago. Now we have some changins in the shoulderpieces and the armpatches." This is the uniform colour I believe is refered to by the BGS as "moosgrün".

[Gordon Craig]

The BGS comments on the second uniform pictured were "The uniform was worn from 1952 -1971 (dark green)." The problem with this comment is that this tunic is dated 1974. So here we have the collectors on-going difficulty. Different sources with different dates of the adoption of uniforms. After some thought I have concluded that the web site that Klaus quoted stating that the "moosgrün" coloured uniform was adopted in 1976 would appear to be the most correct one.

Regards,

Gordon