BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Klaus1989]

Green trousers only BGS (except GSE). Landespolizei would have no reason to wear them. I would guess, that they would have their beige coloured model of Skihosen, although I am not sure, if I have seen them. Bayerische Grenzpolizei wore Keilhosen as part of standard uniform until 1970s, so possibly also afterwards in beige?

Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Hi Klaus,

Just to double check your comment about the beige Skihosen... they definitely exist. I have several of them. I don't remember if the features are identical to the green type or not.

Steve

[Marksharky]

I spoke to my good friend, and BGS veteran in Berlin the other day about these trousers. He has a full set, original uniform, that includes a pair of these trousers. The uniform jacket that goes with them is a short type of "Eisenhower" style uniform jacket that was issued to the helicopter pilots. The jacket he has, still has the original cloth flight wings sewn on.

It is interesting to note that there is a small loop type tab on the front of the trousers, near the button fly. This is possibly where the jacket can be secured to the trousers. You can see this on the first photo I posted. Two of the trousers I purchased have this loop, and one does not.

He says that he has not heard of these stirrup trousers being used by any other parts of the BGS, or the academy.

[Marksharky]

From what I understand, the usual flight crew uniform was the BGS flight suit-coveralls with the leather jacket and the Bundeswehr flight boots. An alternate uniform was these stirrup pants with the short cloth flight-uniform jacket or leather jacket. For very special VIP flights, the Class A uniform was sometimes worn.

It could very well be the case that these pants were originally designed for winter-ski use and were adopted by the flight service. Just a thought. With such a small branch of the BGS service, it would make sense.

[Gordon Craig]

Marksharky,

Interesting comments from your friend. Perhaps he would send you a photo of the short jacket?

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Interesting information! I always wondered what that loop was for.

It seems that there are quite a lot of these trousers out there. More than I would expect for something issued only to pilots.

Steve

[Marksharky]

I will see if I can get a photo of the jacket-stirup pants combination. My friend will be out of town until next week, but I will talk to him when he gets home.

As an interesting side note, I flew as a US Coast Guard flight mechanic on the Aérospatiale Dolphin HH65A helicopters from 1986 through 1989. These are the US equivalent to the BGS Eurocopter Dauphin 2 helo's. I put in hundreds of hours in these helicopters flying law enforcement, search and rescue and training flights. I can honestly say that if we had to wear a "uniform" while flying, the pants with zipper pockets and stirrups would fit the bill perfectly.
The stirrups would keep the pants from riding up over the boots and the zipper pockets would be essential to keep loose objects from getting loose and possibly finding their way into the engines.
F.O.D : Foreign Object Debris is a huge concern with helicopter crews and all the flight suits worn on the flight line and in the helicopter must have zipper pockets. We were not allowed to wear any pin-on type insignia either. We were issued special cloth name tags and rank collar tabs. At the time I was in, only aviation units had the cloth name tapes and collar devices.
I am guessing that the BGS had similar regulations and requirements.

With that in mind, I can see how these BGS stirrup pants would be uniquely suited to BGS helicopter use.

Just a few of my thoughts and observations.......... they may or may not actually apply to the old BGS and the issue of the stirrup pants useage.

[Marksharky]

I am sure that this photo has been posted before, but I think it really illustrates the current topic regarding the BGS stirrup pants and their use by the helicopter crews.

This is the cover of the BGS Magazine dated November 1976. It can be clearly seen that the uniform pants being worn, have the zipper front pockets. I think that it would be safe to say that these uniform pants are the same as the "stirrup pants" that we have been discussing.
This official photo would also confirm the information that the helicopter crews sometimes flew with the pants and shirt combination.
The date of this photo also matches the 1970's date period found on these stirrup pants.

[IMG][/IMG]

The search for more photo documentation continues!

Mark

[Klaus1989]

Steve,
thanks for the confirmation, I thought, that had seen beige Skihosen somewhere, but could not find any photos.

Mark,
Interesting find to confirm. These are probably the late pattern Skihosen in schwarzgrün, instead of newer moosgrün. Most photos from 1976 still show old uniforms. The transition lasted until 1978/79.

Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

BGS web belt for battery pack of SEL FuG6 radio. FuG6 was introduced in BGS around 1956. Belt is similar to Bw belts of the time, except webbing colour and the various d-rings.

The battery pack can clip to regular belt as well and most attachments on the belt seem to be unneeded, so it is rare to see one actually in use. Probably why mine appear unissued. Only markings are Assmann logo and D.B.P.a. on buckle.







Regards
Klaus

[Klaus1989]

Only period photo of use by BGS, that I have is photo from my collection. Scans from 1958 THW manual show belt worn by itself without equipment belt, but here the Grenzjäger wear it below regular equipment belt.



My attempt to recreate his setup. Only misses the FuG6! Unfortunately not easy to find.

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Interesting photo and mannequin set up. Is there any difference between this BGS belt and the one worn by the THW other than the colour? It would seem to be a waste of resources to produce two identical belts of a different coloured material.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon,

the THW belt appear to be same, but I would assume in blue-grey. There are actually 2 versions of webbing on these belts - one is regular weave like mine and the other appear to be ribbed weave.

Photo from THW FuG6 manual, that I mentioned:



Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Now I have to dig out my belts! I have two and they are not identical, though both are green (one is darker). I'll see if I can find them and share some pictures.

We had a discussion about this belt a while ago and my memory is that it was concluded that the belt was worn by disaster (including fire) organizations only. However, Klaus has shown that the first picture I know of which clearly demonstrates this is not true. And it is logical since we do know the belt is specific to FuG 6 and the FuG 6 was used by BGS for a short time.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

To add some info on the radio visit this site. Very knowledgeable chap. I have bought radios from him in the past.

Regards,

Gordon

http://www.greenradio.de/htm2/e_fug6.htm