BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

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Great discussion!

Can I get some input about the authenticity of this alleged trials uniform?

Sturm & Sohn product, I would think.

Would look nice with the T-shirt and cap that they produce as well.

Very, very after-market, in my opinion.

N

[Collectinsteve]

Koalorka, I'll save you sending an email to me

It's total commercial. BGS stopped using camouflage, with tiny exceptions (helmet cover and body armor for GSG-9), in 1976. So anything dated after that is suspect from the start.

The trousers were made in significant numbers. When I was in Germany in 1992 I found a small surplus shop in the middle of nowhere that had piles and piles of them. All brand new. I've had maybe 3 or so in my hands since. I kept a set just for comparison's sake. The set I bought in Germany actually appears to have been made from surplus production cloth, not the "pink" type (which I suspect was a rejected print run).

I've had at least one of these jackets. As well as a helmet cover and a uniform in British Tropical cut. All are made from the same slightly "pink" cloth.

Other things that indicate these items are commercial. First, the trousers are 100% Bundeswehr Moleskin design. BGS never once produced a BW item design without modifications. Second, the jacket has BW flags on each shoulder. This would only be the case if BGS members were deployed abroad (UN Mission, for example). Third, the design of the jacket doesn't correspond to anything the BGS has ever used. It's basically a BW Moleskin jacket with two lower pockets added, likely to mimic the real BGS jackets. Fourth, BW buttons are used on both uniforms. BGS has always used their own type of button. Fifth, the black overstamp on the trouser label shows that it is not an official Bundeswehr item. Well, why would that be found on a BGS item?

The trousers were made prior to the existence of STURM/Mil-Tec, but not before TSR (which was what Thomas Sturm called himself before making STURM/Mil-Tec). H. Winnen is, IIRC, a legitimate BW contractor. Which makes sense because they would be already "tooled" to make BW trousers.

IIRC the jacket doesn't have a manufacturer's tag on it.

Steve

[uscob]

Does anybody has more Info on these Pants?

[Gene T]

We've seen those 'pink' pants with the funny label before:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ine+bundeswehr


Nico's pants on the other hand look like the blue green version of the Einsatzanzug, which I understand is what they wore when they wanted to appear less 'aggressive'? It's 1/5 way down this page:.

http://www.hotdogandsodacompany.de/h...tzanz%C3%BCge/



Gene T

[Collectinsteve]

Nico,

These are BGS Einsatzanzughose for sure. The Polizei variations do not have the same color.

They were produced from at least 1963 through 1967. Both jackets and trousers were produced. In fact, I am convinced that they were the only field uniforms the BGS produced from 1963 until the beginning of 1967.

There are two different variations of this uniform. The first type is a near exact copy of the Sumpftarn type produced 1958-1962. I do not remember what the differences are with the second type, but they were not large. I have trousers dated 1963 and 1965. This 1967 example just sold on eBay:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/BGS-Bundesgre...vip=true&rt=nc

BGS veterans said these were worn by BGS members active in close proximity to the border. The thought was they wanted to look less aggressive.

Remember that the BGS did not produce Sumpftarn trousers after 1962. Or at least there is no evidence that they did. So these gray trousers were worn with the camouflage jackets 1967-1976.

There's some photos of BGS members in such uniforms, both pieces or just the trousers.

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

Ah! I forgot I made a thread dedicate to such uniforms

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=Einsatz

Steve

[uscob]

Don't know if they were shown before. Just got a bunch of these "Trikothemden" with BGS Markings. Seems that all of them from 1967, and come unused from the Box.
If anybody has more Info on them, please let me know.

[Klaus1989]

See these on ebay.de often. A few photos from late 1960s/early 70s show them worn under the field uniforms instead of Diensthemd. Other than that, have no more infos.

Regards
Klaus

[uscob]

See these on ebay.de often. A few photos from late 1960s/early 70s show them worn under the field uniforms instead of Diensthemd. Other than that, have no more infos.

Regards
Klaus

for how much do they offer them.

[Klaus1989]

Only one on ebay.de now for EUR 4,99. Not appear to be worth much - several other surplus dealers have them for between EUR 3,49 - 4,00 (googled "BGS Trikothemd").

Regards
Klaus

[uscob]

Only one on ebay.de now for EUR 4,99. Not appear to be worth much - several other surplus dealers have them for between EUR 3,49 - 4,00 (googled "BGS Trikothemd").

Regards
Klaus

Did that too.
Most of them offered as used, so I sell them for 4.99, minus Tax for overseas Orders. My ones are unused from the Box. I don't want to say "NEW" for a Shirt from 1967, that's over 45 Years old.

[Klaus1989]

they are definitely later, than what I collect, so post 1961. To find earlier BGS shirts is very difficult. I have only 1 Diensthemd (early blue/grey version with pointed pocket flaps), still search for more and the early green shirt with epaulettes with no success.

[Klaus1989]

Received this interesting press foto recently. Undated, but from details like hairstyles, cap model and 2nd model Dienstrock is from probably between 1961-63. It is from set of BGS men in formation and relaxing during border maneuvers in early 1960s. Everyone seem to try to look so serious, except the man in the middle, who try to suppress a smile.

What is interesting is, that every man has the early canvas G1 pouches! I had always assumed, only used short time 1957/58 and photos had seemed to support this, but here is entire unit with them in early 1960s. Also note the fieldmade(?) binocular cover.



Regards
Klaus

[Collectinsteve]

Nice picture!

Steve

[Marksharky]

Wonderful photo! It is these "exceptions to the rule" discoveries that keeps the thrill of the hunt and collecting alive! Anyone who has served in the service knows that there often seemed to be as many exceptions as there were rules