For the Bundeswehr lover in all of us...

[Gene T]

Early Gebirgsjaeger jacket?

I couldn't resist bidding on this interesting-looking jacket (on the left), even though DHL took in three times more than the German seller did to ship it to me.




The seller thought that it may be an early BW Gebirgsjaeger jacket, probably due to its short length, side lacing arrangement (note the difference in the grommets), and hard-wearing cloth (it's a laminate of rubberized canvas on the outside and a thin flannel sort of material on the inside). Other than the size tag inside the collar, it is completely free of markings. Even the backside of the buttons is unmarked. I was surprised to find that the buttons are made out of steel rather than aluminum. The sewn-on belt support hooks too, appear to be parkerized steel. There is a handle (for extraction?) sewn to the upper back, just below the collar, which makes me think that whatever this stylish little jacket is, it was designed for potentially hazardous duties.




I went through all 32 pages of this old thread hoping to make a positive ID on this jacket, without success. Can the BW experts here help?

Thanks!
Gene T

[Gordon Craig]

Gene T,

This a new jacket to me. This tunic definitely seems to be cut more in the style of a WWII German panzer tunic than the early BW tunics. Button placement, single exterior breast pocket. I've seen one picture in Hormann's book showing a Gebirgsjager wearing the type of jacket introduced in 1956 in that type of material. I've seen one or two of these early Gebirgsjager tunics on ebay.de for sale but was never successful in winning the auction. They appeared to be identical to the 1956 tunics but had laces on both sides as did the later light grey short tunics. Unfortunately, in the photo in Hormann's book the soldiers arm cover the sdie of the tunic and you can not tell if it has laces or not.
Too bad there is not a label inside the tunic. With the hand hold inside it would certainly lend itself to a tankers tunic. Although, Hormann shows pictures in his book of early trials combat tunics with this same style device on/in the back of the jacket.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gene T]

Thanks for the input, Gordon! The resemblance between this jacket and WH-era drillich Panzerjacke is unmistakable. However, why would they make tank drivers wear a garment made out of water-proof material? I also think that rubberized canvas could be a source of discomfort within the confines of a hot vehicle, and a potential hazard if the vehicle catches fire. Those side laces can also get snagged on equipment at the most inopportune time. Moreover, there are elasticized cuffs sewn inside the sleeves of this jacket; which again suggests that it was intended for outdoor wear.

As the Panzerjacke was supposedly modeled after ski jackets that were in fashion in the 1920s and 30s, perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised if the designers tasked to outfit the new Bundeswehr Gebirgsjaeger searched for inspiration in the same type of garments?

The apparent dearth of photographic evidence showing this jacket in wear would suggest that it was not widely issued (if at all). Perhaps it fell victim to its politically unacceptable resemblance to the WH Panzerjacke?

In order to get around this issue, the designers may have opted to marry this garment to an Ike jacket: I can imagine them making it single-breasted, with a covered button fly (but keeping the uneven spacing of the bottom four buttons to go with the side-lacing arrangement). With the addition of a second breast pocket and the introduction of other small changes, and voilà - the Skibluse as we know it today was born.

Which Hormann book were you referring to, the German one you had mentioned before, or those two volumes published in English?

Thanks again!
Gene T

[Gordon Craig]

Gene T,

I was referring to the Hormann book in German. As for why it would be water proof, possibly because tank drivers sometimes drove with their head/upper torso exposed for better visability. I've never driven a tank but I understand the driver's visibility is very limited from inside the tank. Another though would be that tank crews do their own repairs in the field such as replaceing a thrown track. With a waterproof tunic they would at least have some measure of protection while working outside of the tank in inclememnt weather. As for the reason for laces, anybodys guess but I would suggest the "one size fits all" approach. When I first joined the Canadian Air Force many years ago we were issued boxer shorts underwear with laces on the sides!

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

I have book on German uniforms of 1919-Present that has photo of West German tank commander from early 1960s wearing some type of special jacket for tankers with his Baskenmütze. Unfortunately I lent the book to another local collector and have not had time to pick it up, so I do not remember the exact details of uniform. But it was something I have not seen in other photos.

Maybe it was this jacket, maybe not... Now I have to have it back!

regards
Klaus

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,

Are you talking about Hormann's English language book "Uniforms of the Panzer Troops 1917 to Present? There are no pictures in it, or mention of, a jacket like the one shown in this thread. On page 114 he shows the slate-grey dress jacket of Major Bernhard Martini of Reconnaisance Battalion 3. The jacket in the photo appears to be identical to the jackets first introduced for the Bundeswehr. Although he states that it resembles the special clothing jacket of 1935 that doesn't make it a special Bundeswehr tankers jacket because the whole tunic design did.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gene T,

Would you post a picture of the size tag you mentioned that was inside the collar please.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

Gordon:
No, actually I do not own any of Hormann's books, German or English language.

The title was Uniforms of the German Soldier: An Illustrated History from World War II to the Present Day by Alejandro de Quesada (actually it covers Reichswehr and pre-WWII too, so subtitle is wrong). Bought it cheap through mail-order book dealer. Lots of great early Bw photos.

regards
Klaus

[Gene T]

Gene T,

Would you post a picture of the size tag you mentioned that was inside the collar please.

Regards,

Gordon

Here it is, Gordon. Along with a view of the jacket interior and belt hook arrangement. It bears mentioning that the hooks are very carefully sewn: the threads go through the flannel and rubber layers of the laminated cloth, but the vast majority of the stitches do not come through the exterior canvas layer, giving the arrangement a very clean appearance!




Also, thanks for the book tip, Klaus. I just ordered a copy through Abebooks (from "Bookmasters"). Hopefully my experience with them this time will be better than the last (a book vendor taking multiple orders from WAF members for a single book, and claiming that the ghost books had been shipped, until inconsistencies in their story were pointed out to them).

Best regards,
Gene T

[Klaus1989]

Looked at my book yesterday after I picked it up and the tanker wears early model of tanker Kombi with zipper pockets and elbow reinforcement. I knew it was unusual uniform but could not remember the details. So the mystery remains unsolved...

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

I thought the mystery coat might have its origins with the Mountain Troops, but its not the version shown here on the 11 June 1960 cover of "Der Stern".

TJ

[SprogCollector]

Considering the complete lack of any military-type labels, what of the possibility that this is some type of Polizei item? Motorcycle police?

[Gene T]

Considering the complete lack of any military-type labels, what of the possibility that this is some type of Polizei item? Motorcycle police?

Interesting thought. It is certainly possible that this is a police rather than military jacket. However, the one feature on this garment that would be rather out of place on a police tunic is the extraction handle. Gordon's mention of this detail being present on early trial combat uniforms (as seen in Hormann's book) causes me to lean favorably towards the hypothesis that we are looking at a military design.

Still, you are quite right, without a positive ID via markings or through documentary evidence, this can literally be anything, and be made at any point within the past fifty years.

Regards,
Gene T

[Gordon Craig]

I couldn`t restist to buy this piked cap as I walked over yesterday fleamarked...:











Unfortunately my "Uniform, sandfarben" is from a Uffz and not from a Stabsoffizier" ...

Jens

Jens,

Does this cap have an all plastic visor or is it cloth covered on the top? Also, are the oak leaves on the visor embroidered metallic thread?

Regards,

Gordon

[allen]

Odd gray jacket -

Just a thought on this peculiar jacket - it is obviously not a combat uniform piece, far too fancy, and it is also obviously too purpose made to be a walking out/dress item.
My idea is Bundeswehr ceremonial motorcycle escort. For what it's worth. That would explain the waterproof material. I've seen one in a book, somewhere, but I can't recall the context.