1st canadian parachute battalion title

[Infanteer]

I am getting a bit confused Gary. While my intention here was not to debate any of your points, I think you just made a statement that I am now a little unclear on. You state that only the only titles that the soldiers had made were the printed variety while in the book on pages 110 and 111 there is shown a couple examples of "private purchase" embroidered insignia. On page 110 Ken specifically mentions unauthorized embroidered titles being obtained for wear on walking out dress.... maybe I'm missing something, but unauthorized and unofficial are the same thing to me. These are the titles that I am eager to learn more about.

[lambstew]

Here Are your basic titles..

This collage represents the basic 1st Can Para shoulder titles both issue and a few variations. The double layer English made private purchase title just below the printed issue type filled the gap as far as a 'best dress' embroidered titles went until the official introduction of the issue single layer English made shoulder title was produced.

The earlier (circa 1943-44) private purchase double layer English made titles are or are almost the identical size of the printed issue one and what I have shown is only one variation. Other variations exist and I have another on a BD shown in Ken's book and there are several other of the same shown loose from Gary's collection also in the book.

Shown below the official issue single layer English made shoulder flash is a cruder variation. This is the only variation of the single layer that I personally have ever seen. Like Gary says, there was really no need to go out and purchase any more embroidered shoulder flashes once the issue ones were made avaliable.

The late war Canadian made double layer titles have two variations - one with gold lettering and the other with white. The bottom layer or background dark green material is usually made of woven wool while the upper or top layer maroon is felt. That's it for Canadian made titles. No other variations aside from the odd one being made of all felt has been encountered that I know or have heard of. These continued to be worn well after the war at the Joint Air training Centre at Rivers Manitoba.

Hope this helps,

Konrad
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/lambstew/titles.jpg">

[Infanteer]

Fair enough. If those are the only accepted variations then that's really all I was looking for. I have seen a couple of cloth titles that looked almost homemade in construction and knew that there existed unofficial titles which is why I was looking for further input. Like was mentioned earlier, it was a small unit with a short life span and so the variations of titles is limited. Thanks Konrad and Gary... as usual your knowledge and patience is appreciated.

Cheers, Steve

[1stcanpara]

I am getting a bit confused Gary. While my intention here was not to debate any of your points, I think you just made a statement that I am now a little unclear on. You state that only the only titles that the soldiers had made were the printed variety while in the book on pages 110 and 111 there is shown a couple examples of "private purchase" embroidered insignia. On page 110 Ken specifically mentions unauthorized embroidered titles being obtained for wear on walking out dress.... maybe I'm missing something, but unauthorized and unofficial are the same thing to me. These are the titles that I am eager to learn more about.

Hi Steve...I've cut and pasted the below paragraph and have added one word. I guess I just assumed that we were talking about CLOTH copies of the canvas patch. Of course, it would be utterly pointless to have a canvas copy made of a canvas patch. I'm not sure that local shops could even do such a thing. With the embroiderey machines of the day, it was not difficult to make a patch.

Cheers,

Gary

As for the private purchase patches, please have a look at the text in Ken's book again. Ken is very clear in stating that the embroideredcopies that the soldiers did have made were of the canvas patch. (In fact, if you look at page 110, you'll see a couple of veteran- acquired examples from my collection that are very clearly in the form of the canvas patch.) This makes total sense as the guys were stationed in England at the time of issue and being typical soldiers wanted to dress up their unofficial or walking out BD. If anyone on the Forum were to post photos of a patch that is an obvious tailor made copy of the canvas title, I would never dismiss it out of hand since I doubt that there are two that are actually the same since from what we can tell, they were made by hand, mostly on a custom order basis by local shops.

[1stcanpara]

I forgot to add that I have a good photo of the real English made embroidered patch next to one of the fake ones. I can't post photos here, but if anyone would like to see the pic or post it here, send me a PM with your email address.

Gary

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Guys, I am posting these pics on behalf of Gary.

He tells me that the original can be seen at the bottom.

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Here is the reverse.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Gary has also kindly shared these cloth theatre made titles.

[force136]

Cdn shoulder titles

I think Konrad and Gary have summed this up. To put it simply, the unauthorized embroidered shoulder titles were made to mimic the "Issue" printed titles. Printed badges were only made via Ordnance contract. These unauthorized titles were purchased around Bulford and possibly in other areas. This was not a big phenominum. Bradbrooke and Nicklin were sticklers for following British dress orders which forbid the wearing of embroidered anything. ( the only exception being officers could wear either printed or embroidered Pegasus on Service Dress. This being an error in the book ). I have a photo of a Bn soldier standing in front of a mirror that was put up at the gate to the Cdn camp. Each soldier was reminded to make sure he was regulation. So while it did occur, it was rare. I do not envision there being many more variants than presented in the book. There might be one or two examples that look similar, who knows? If they got away with it, these were worn until an authorized embroidered shoulder title was approved in 1945. (However with the crackdown on these items of insignia,I would think they were not worn for long.) The authorized examples I believe were made by Lewis Falk but cant prove it. They are in a different style than the unauthorized types. They are found with a tan or greyish mesh backing with the letters embroidered through the background and backing. The larger reproduction of this title did appear in the 70's without a backing and some unscrupulous people have been applying a backing to these. This is because it is easy to tell the repros becuase the quality is bad and you can practically see through them when held up to the light. There is also another repro embroidered through a canvass background. In addition Konrad has a wierd variant on a purplish background which appears to be Canadian made. However this one may have been made after the war as a crest of some sort? There are good copies of the unauthorized two layer embroidered title, the original shown in the book attributed to Kerr on his BD. Be careful with these. The titles Konrad listed are basically all of them with the exception of the unauthorized examples.

The Battalion was unique in the Canadian Army as it was forced to only wear printed insignia. However once the Battalion ceased to be part of 6th Airborne, Lt. Col. Eadie, allowed members to sew embroidered shoulder titles to their walking out BD.

Hope this helps.

Ken

Hi Steve...I've cut and pasted the below paragraph and have added one word. I guess I just assumed that we were talking about CLOTH copies of the canvas patch. Of course, it would be utterly pointless to have a canvas copy made of a canvas patch. I'm not sure that local shops could even do such a thing. With the embroiderey machines of the day, it was not difficult to make a patch.

Cheers,

Gary

As for the private purchase patches, please have a look at the text in Ken's book again. Ken is very clear in stating that the embroideredcopies that the soldiers did have made were of the canvas patch. (In fact, if you look at page 110, you'll see a couple of veteran- acquired examples from my collection that are very clearly in the form of the canvas patch.) This makes total sense as the guys were stationed in England at the time of issue and being typical soldiers wanted to dress up their unofficial or walking out BD. If anyone on the Forum were to post photos of a patch that is an obvious tailor made copy of the canvas title, I would never dismiss it out of hand since I doubt that there are two that are actually the same since from what we can tell, they were made by hand, mostly on a custom order basis by local shops.

[lambstew]

I played around with Gary's picture to show the colours better so hope this helps.

Cheers!

Konrad
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/lambstew/improved.jpg">

[Infanteer]

Thanks very much everyone. In an effort to be thorough and ensure that I clearly understand everything I sometimes can be a pain in the arse. I understand everyone's points now and all is clear. I feel much more confident in my ungoing search for an original shoulder title.

Cheers, Steve

[JEROEN1944]

Well Erik, the experts have spoken hope you have found your answer. Like Gary mentioned, you should buy the book from Ken. Its wil realy save you a lot of money.

Jeroen

[4th division]

Everybody, Thanks!

I learned something out of this, allthough the badge was fake, I did not mind!

I'm gonna look for another one and badge these on my going out re-enactment gear.

Best Regards, Erik

[sabertasche]

This thread should be pinned for future reference. The same questions are going to be asked again and again.

Greg