Rochus Misch dies at 96 !

[Klaus O.]

R.i.p

So many comments for someone who thought to have served his fatherland behind a telephone desk... He was lucky to get so seriously wounded in the very early stages of the war (Poland campaing), in order to get a nice assignment at AH's HQ.

I read his book and enjoyed it; it's interesting to read a story from another perspective not from a biased politically correct today journalists' WW2 story point of view. He was quite happy to have been withdrawn from the front, he doesn't hide it in his book. The journalist who wrote the article forgot to mention that he spent 9-10 years of hell in Russian captivity, being hit in his testicles like in the James Bond movie "Casino Royal", being deprived of sleeping, being asked 1'000'000 times the same questions by his Russian inquisitors, trying to have him admitted that AH still lived. I can also understand the Russians on the other hand, he was lucky to get away alive again and being able to live a very long life, considering what he went through (being shot just centimiters away from his heart, having had a stressful job and finally to have been POW so long... many people today would get a stroke for that...). Maybe he didn't have such a happy life. When he came back from captivity, he found a different world, soon divorced, but in the other hand found quite immediately a job in post war West Germany where working people in all fields were needed and soon German economy boomed in the 50ies (til today!) also thanks to those people who rebuild it, maybe trying to forget as much as possible all the horrors of war and focusing on their lives and working hard. Only when the big moment (death) is approaching people like Misch (not only him also Hitler's secretary and others) opened up and talked about it. Some tried to hide their feeling or were looking for excuses like "I was just following the orders"... Misch was not like this; he told what he thought; he was just a loyal employee of his boss, like he said, like most Germans... (I don't recall exactly but don't think he was in the party). Too bad that the boss happened to be AH... You can't change it and also Misch knew it. If he was the clerk of uncle job he would have worn his medals until his very last day...

Just my 2 cents!

ciao

[Etienne B.]

I have written with him and he Always was kind enough to reply.Just a decent guy !

R.I.P.

[Don D.]

Wars are filled with decent guys who might otherwise pass through history without note.

[PaulW]

"I am curious at any time if Misch spoke apologetically for the role he played in history?......Albert Speer spoke of the need for building a world, that would not allow catastrophes like WW2 to ever happen again.....Did Misch ever speak in such terms?

Misch had to have known about the death camps.....He was in amongst Germany's high command......Yet, like so many up and coming German officers, he likely had ambitions of seeing how far he could go in Hitler's National Socialist regime.....IF not, why did he not try and stop Hitler?.....He certainly would've had his opportunities......

I think the ones who should be praised are the von Stauffenbergs, Olbrichts, von Treskows, and the like.....Not so sure about Misch.....Gentleman or not....Bodes"
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"The "SS" were the military wing of the Nazi party.
As sworn "party members" to death, ALL who took the oath, bare the blame.

No "If's" ... "But's" .... "Maybe's" ....

If you were SS, you were fully indoctrinated and willingly committed to the Nazi ideal, and bare direct or indirect guilt to the greatest crime in "human" history.

No pussyfooting get-out clauses or excuses ...."
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Regarding some of the previous comments, they seem to have been fired from the hip by people who don't seem to know or understand the subject - apparently just to notch up publicly that they are 'right on' people and not Nazis (like the rest of us are presumably ) - all part of the 'I live, breath and collect Nazi stuff and sleep under a Nazi flag duvet every night but I'm not a Nazi' theme that some people spout on WAF with tedious regularity. This is a history forum, not a neo-Nazi website - you don't have to tell everyone you're not a Nazi every 5 minutes - it's boring!

That said, Misch was a 20 year old junior NCO (not an Officer or General - hello!) who joined the Waffen SS because he was an anti-communist (NOTHING wrong with that unless you endorse communist mass-murder) and was told it would lead to a job in the Civil service! He wasn't even in the Hitler Youth, nor was he a Party member. When he joined the Waffen SS there was no Holocaust - he joined in 1939, the Holocaust was not planned until Jan 1942 at Wansee. When he joined it was only 3 years after Germany had hosted the International Olympics, Zeppelins had been flying back and forth to the USA and Germany and the USA were at peace for the next 2 whole years! Germany was anti-semitic and racist, so were large sections of the USA and the West in general - at that time. Our good old Churchill (now a Saint btw) here in the UK even spouted anti-semitic comments in the 1920's and openly admired Hitler at one point. Yet you blame a telephonist (with 'ambitions' to join the Civil Service) for not stopping the Holocaust/ WW2/ Armageddon???

With reference to the greatest crime in history, why do we NEVER hear anyone talking about those (even bodyguards, or telephonists like Misch) around Stalin, perhaps assasinating him etc when Stalin murdered many times more people than Hitler (and was OUR ALLY btw...). Would the WAF 'heroes' on here have done it? Again, Misch was a self-proclaimed anti-communist who joined the Waffen SS after communist mass murders were well known, and before the Holocaust was conceived/ planned. Please, let's get the history right on a history forum!

[BrianK]

Ditto on the last post. Also, from the first post, what was wrong with Misch's account of the Hitler/Braun suicides?

[bodes]

That said, Misch was a 20 year old junior NCO (not an Officer or General - hello!) who joined the Waffen SS because he was an anti-communist (NOTHING wrong with that unless you endorse communist mass-murder) and was told it would lead to a job in the Civil service! He wasn't even in the Hitler Youth,

Compulsory service in the HJ didn't start until 1939.....Misch joined the SS-VT in 1937.....By that time, he would've been 20 years old and too old to join.....

When he joined the Waffen SS there was no Holocaust - he joined in 1939, the Holocaust was not planned until Jan 1942 at Wansee.

Even though the "Final Solution" did not start until 1942, the programs to rid Germany of it's Jews was already well under way....You should read about the Nurnberg Laws of 1935......Remember a little thing called "Kristallnacht"?......That happened in 1938......

When he joined it was only 3 years after Germany had hosted the International Olympics, Zeppelins had been flying back and forth to the USA and Germany and the USA were at peace for the next 2 whole years! Germany was anti-semitic and racist, so were large sections of the USA and the West in general - at that time. Our good old Churchill (now a Saint btw) here in the UK even spouted anti-semitic comments in the 1920's and openly admired Hitler at one point. Yet you blame a telephonist (with 'ambitions' to join the Civil Service) for not stopping the Holocaust/ WW2/ Armageddon???

Perhaps you should cut back on the caffeine.....Run on sentences that don't stay on one subject is "boring"......

btw....Misch joined the SS-VT in 1937.....The Olympics were 1936.....You may want to check your math.....And Henry Ford also made derogatory statements about the Jews....However I don't recall him or Churchill ever espousing their deportation or total annihilation....

With reference to the greatest crime in history, why do we NEVER hear anyone talking about those (even bodyguards, or telephonists like Misch) around Stalin, perhaps assasinating him etc when Stalin murdered many times more people than Hitler (and was OUR ALLY btw...). Would the WAF 'heroes' on here have done it? Again, Misch was a self-proclaimed anti-communist who joined the Waffen SS after communist mass murders were well known, and before the Holocaust was conceived/ planned. Please, let's get the history right on a history forum!

I agree.....Do you know any body in your neighborhood who could explain the history of WW2 to you?.....It would be beneficial so that others don't have to read your pointless posts.....Bodes

[BrianK]

I don't think Albert Speer is a role model - he should have been hung since his guilt was as much as the ones who were. I guess this is the WAF anti-Misch thread.

[PaulW]

Bodes:-

1) So he could have joined the HJ before 1937 right - if he was a true believer? But he didn't. Yikes, you're not making any sense!

2) Kristallnacht was not the Holocaust - are you serious? Far worse things happened to Native Americans in the good 'ol USA than happened on Kristallnacht. To equate Kristallnacht to the Holocaust is simply unbelievable.

3) Thanks for the correction on his join up date - you've endorsed my point even better - he joined only 1 year after the Olympics and even BEFORE Kristallnacht!

4) I think you need more caffeine, lots more. Please try to wake up!

[BrianK]

Saint or sinner, I want to know about the accuracy of what he wrote. Can anyone show where and why he was inaccurate in his story?

[Lloyd I.]

In every interview I ever saw of Rochus he was a cordial, polite and decent individual. He understood his place in history, he suffered tremendously for it and the importance of putting forth his remembrances was not lost on him. Those who are attempting to pin the atrocities of the spidery higher ups on a Junior NCO adjutant, Waffen-SS, or not are sophomoric. I would counter that the W-SS officer corps of Hitlers adjutants probably knew far more than a telephone operator did. Wünsche after all also said Hitler knew nothing of the holocaust and was a true patriot that did the best he could for his country. Wünsche too loved his Führer until the very end.

Rochus was a product of his time replete with it's racial agendas.

Does this mean that anyone who enlists in the military of the United States also supports homosexuality and atheism since that's the push the military supports these days? To be the soldier you always wanted to be since you were a child means that today by proxy you Have to accept it and thereby support it. Look at what is happening to anyone who challenges this system today. They lose their entire military careers over it.

What does anyone expect of these men? To turn their backs on the countless dead civilian or military?

Rochus was a simple man of service.

May he find the peace that life denied him.

[Schnellmeyer]

I was afraid that this topic was going to turn into a rant about Misch and it looks like I was right . People are "shooting from the hip " who have never had contact with Misch or even bothered to to research this man . At least there are some like Claudio, Etienna , Don D , Paul W and Lioyd I who have the intelligence to look at this man from a balanced view .
Misch can not be blamed for the crimes of the people he served under , at the end of the day he was a junior Nco who manned the switch board . He had NO imput into the running of the Third Reich , I think just because he was on AH staff people think his status was much higher than it was .
Let the man rest in peace , none of us were there at the time and it is not for us to judge him .

[bodes]

Bodes:-

1) So he could have joined the HJ before 1937 right - if he was a true believer? But he didn't. Yikes, you're not making any sense!

Well, since he was orphaned at a young age and raised by his grandparents, perhaps he was seeking out a vocation?.....

2) Kristallnacht was not the Holocaust - are you serious? Far worse things happened to Native Americans in the good 'ol USA than happened on Kristallnacht. To equate Kristallnacht to the Holocaust is simply unbelievable.

Keep telling yourself that.....I like your take on revisionist history.....Kristallnacht was the start of the Holocaust....

3) Thanks for the correction on his join up date - you've endorsed my point even better - he joined only 1 year after the Olympics and even BEFORE Kristallnacht!

The only thing I proved is that you are uniformed and don't know your historical dates....Let me guess.....You're twelve years old and have been studying history since you were a kid....LMAO!

4) I think you need more caffeine, lots more. Please try to wake up!

I could say the same to you......"Those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it"......Bodes

[beufighter]

.
Let the man rest in peace , none of us were there at the time and it is not for us to judge him .

+1

you guys will probably never know the truth on these matters wheather he know about the camps or not. A few people i believe have said that hitler had more than one personality Misch would only have met him in mostly good moods. and i would love to see any man(or women) stand up to a dicator and say stop killing people come on think about these things.

Give the man a break how would you like it if you had all these people slandering your name after you died think about that

[Bill Schwarz]

Regarding some of the previous comments, they seem to have been fired from the hip by people who don't seem to know or understand the subject - apparently just to notch up publicly that they are 'right on' people and not Nazis (like the rest of us are presumably ) - all part of the 'I live, breath and collect Nazi stuff and sleep under a Nazi flag duvet every night but I'm not a Nazi' theme that some people spout on WAF with tedious regularity. This is a history forum, not a neo-Nazi website - you don't have to tell everyone you're not a Nazi every 5 minutes - it's boring!

That said, Misch was a 20 year old junior NCO (not an Officer or General - hello!) who joined the Waffen SS because he was an anti-communist (NOTHING wrong with that unless you endorse communist mass-murder) and was told it would lead to a job in the Civil service! He wasn't even in the Hitler Youth, nor was he a Party member. When he joined the Waffen SS there was no Holocaust - he joined in 1939, the Holocaust was not planned until Jan 1942 at Wansee. When he joined it was only 3 years after Germany had hosted the International Olympics, Zeppelins had been flying back and forth to the USA and Germany and the USA were at peace for the next 2 whole years! Germany was anti-semitic and racist, so were large sections of the USA and the West in general - at that time. Our good old Churchill (now a Saint btw) here in the UK even spouted anti-semitic comments in the 1920's and openly admired Hitler at one point. Yet you blame a telephonist (with 'ambitions' to join the Civil Service) for not stopping the Holocaust/ WW2/ Armageddon???

With reference to the greatest crime in history, why do we NEVER hear anyone talking about those (even bodyguards, or telephonists like Misch) around Stalin, perhaps assasinating him etc when Stalin murdered many times more people than Hitler (and was OUR ALLY btw...). Would the WAF 'heroes' on here have done it? Again, Misch was a self-proclaimed anti-communist who joined the Waffen SS after communist mass murders were well known, and before the Holocaust was conceived/ planned. Please, let's get the history right on a history forum!

Paul , Very well said.

Bill S.

[bodes]

+1

you guys will probably never know the truth on these matters wheather he know about the camps or not. A few people i believe have said that hitler had more than one personality Misch would only have met him in mostly good moods. and i would love to see any man(or women) stand up to a dicator and say stop killing people come on think about these things.

Give the man a break how would you like it if you had all these people slandering your name after you died think about that

Actually Henriette von Schirach (Baldur von Schirach's wife) is one of the few people known to have challenged the persecution of Jews to Hitler personally......Bodes