Books about the Waffen SS officers and the truth!

[Steve P]

Here is the book you really should read

The Waffen SS: Hitler’s Elite Guard at War by Stein

I left that one out...and agree very good work!

[leibregiment]

And if you want a great book about the fighting in Berlin then get Bloody Streets...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Stree...2886068&sr=1-1

Cheaper here http://www.landmarkmilitarybooks.com...5-pr-2588.html

[Michael Fay]

read a book written by a professor

I might suggest trying to read a few books on the SS written by History Professors and published by a University press
. Lately a few books on the role of the polizei in SS Eastern operations have come out.
Of course, being academics they will look at the dark side of the SS-but I would not have it any other way.
I just can not put too much faith in books with little or no source citations and no bibliography...or a biblio full of non academic books that are merely repeating the same old stories without any proof to back it up.

[pasoleati]

Academic degree in history is no quarantee of quality. For example, we have several academics in our country (Finland) that are die hard Stalinists and their works reflect that. What is more, in today´s academic world no author willing to remain in the "career tube" cannot challenge anything that the establishment holds dear. Except if you are a Communist repeating Leninist-Stalinist propaganda. Just remember that e.g. in 1960s there were no holocaust studies in American universities and studying that was no career booster. Today, I believe US universities expend greater resources to the studies of the holocaust than to the study of your Civil War!

Plus that real military history is also "not fashionable" in today´s academia. Social history and gender studies are the hot topics now.

[Michael Fay]

Academic degree in history is no quarantee of quality. For example, we have several academics in our country (Finland) that are die hard Stalinists and their works reflect that. What is more, in today´s academic world no author willing to remain in the "career tube" cannot challenge anything that the establishment holds dear. Except if you are a Communist repeating Leninist-Stalinist propaganda. Just remember that e.g. in 1960s there were no holocaust studies in American universities and studying that was no career booster. Today, I believe US universities expend greater resources to the studies of the holocaust than to the study of your Civil War!

Plus that real military history is also "not fashionable" in today´s academia. Social history and gender studies are the hot topics now.

I never said it was proof of quality...indeed, it will usually mean a less than exciting read. But, it will usually be proof of an actual citing of sources as to where the ideas come from.From which I can go to the sources and check them out.
I prefer being able to check sources than take any writer at their word.In fact, I dont really take any one's writing at their word. Give me the sources, and bibliography.
As for historiography of American history....sure, fashions in history come and go...but so what? I can simply figure out the author's point of view/prejudice and still get some useful info out of the book. It requires analytical reading. I never read a book and like everything in it....
By the way, one can also find books on SS from all the different decades and read them, I have a few academic books on SS from 50's, 60's ,90's, and 2000.
(as an aside,I have hundreds of books on TR in general from the 30's and 40's--their prejudices are all over the place back then)
My biggest problem with the old left is that they almost always failed to grasp the ideological-religious/pseudo-religious/mystic aspect of TR in general. They always went for an purely political economic aspect of TR.
But, read them and notice what they missed....still better than maybe made up stories by writers that wont show their sources.

[leads1]

Hi guys
interesting topic
thanks for some good book recommendations
Gerard

[pasoleati]

I never said it was proof of quality...indeed, it will usually mean a less than exciting read. But, it will usually be proof of an actual citing of sources as to where the ideas come from.From which I can go to the sources and check them out.
I prefer being able to check sources than take any writer at their word..

I also prefer properly cited works, but one must seriously ask that e.g. what are the chances an average reader has to check e.g. various documents at Russian MoD archives? I recently read a book that is almost solely composed of documents from the FSB archives. Feel free to go and check them! I just have a nagging doubt that you won´t get even to the door.

[Michael Fay]

I cant read Cyrillic

I also prefer properly cited works, but one must seriously ask that e.g. what are the chances an average reader has to check e.g. various documents at Russian MoD archives? I recently read a book that is almost solely composed of documents from the FSB archives. Feel free to go and check them! I just have a nagging doubt that you won´t get even to the door.

???
I never meant that I or most other people can get into Russian archives much less read Cyrillic script.
But many can read English and German, and have access to the books cited and even to a few rare SS buchen und Heften,
...if one collects that sort of thing

[pasoleati]

Well, my point was that best historians use mostly primary sources like archival records and checking of these is very difficult for most average readers, regardless of the language. And in some fields of history, like aviation history, it has not been the practice to list sources. For example, the highly regarded aircraft manufacturer histories by the late Putnam did not usually have even a bibliography, let alone footnoting. And the Spitfire bible by Shacklady&Morgan, basically 100% based on primary sources, has no footnoting.

[keith]

Beevor's Berlin: The Downfall 1945 is the best book I've read on the subject. He used a lot of original sources that I hadn't seen before. His book Stalingrad is also top notch. I didn't like his The Battle For Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939. I haven't read D-Day: The Battle for Normandy, yet.

Beevor just came out with a book about D Day