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    #1

    Books about the Waffen SS officers and the truth!

    A friend just told me he's reading a book about Berlin 1945. Here I qoute him. "At the moment I'm reading the fall of Berlin 1945. The Waffen SS took a pretty callous attitude towards their own civilians conscripting young kids and old men into the Volksstrum. If you ask me this was a bit of unnecessary slaughter considering their own officers had retreated far behind the front lines and were already preparing their own getaway. Himmler in particular seemed to be a bit of a shyster!!!"

    I know Himmler was a craven coward, but I am really in need of a bo book that will show my friend that the Waffen SS were mostly a voluntary force and that their officers were mostly leading from the front and not cowards who fled the front lines. What books can I recommend?
    Thank you.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Originally posted by Jaegerhando View Post
    A friend just told me he's reading a book about Berlin 1945. Here I qoute him. "At the moment I'm reading the fall of Berlin 1945. The Waffen SS took a pretty callous attitude towards their own civilians conscripting young kids and old men into the Volksstrum. If you ask me this was a bit of unnecessary slaughter considering their own officers had retreated far behind the front lines and were already preparing their own getaway. Himmler in particular seemed to be a bit of a shyster!!!"

    I know Himmler was a craven coward, but I am really in need of a bo book that will show my friend that the Waffen SS were mostly a voluntary force and that their officers were mostly leading from the front and not cowards who fled the front lines. What books can I recommend?
    Thank you.
    Why would the Waffen SS be conscripting kids and old men into the Volksstrum? The Waffen SS was the combat arm of the SS and was not involved in recruiting personnel into the Volksstrum. I think the Waffen SS was already pretty busy doing other things in April/May 1945.
    When you go home
    Tell them for us and say
    For your tomorrow
    We gave our today

    --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
    Iwo Jima 1945

    Comment

      #3
      I think he's probably talking about the way the Volksstrum & Hitler Youth were sometimes "encouraged" by members of the Waffen SS (and others) at gun point to do their duty during the battle of Berlin.

      A very large percentage of the Waffen SS fighting in Berlin were foreign volunteers whose homelands had already fallen. I believe one of the greatest ironies was that at the end of his life Hitler was being defended by non German soldiers.

      So i suppose he does have a point, where were the ethnic German Waffen SS troops?

      If anyone knows of a book about the Waffen SS during the battle of Berlin i'd love to know.

      Comment

        #4
        ok a bit off topic....well besides their nice and flashy uniforms, i don't think waffen ss in general, is the best/consistent in combat, loyalty, elite category kind of thing. think japanese imperial army, they do better than the SS anytime !!

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by WalterB View Post
          Why would the Waffen SS be conscripting kids and old men into the Volksstrum? The Waffen SS was the combat arm of the SS and was not involved in recruiting personnel into the Volksstrum. I think the Waffen SS was already pretty busy doing other things in April/May 1945.
          Yeah my friend just read Anthony Beevor's Berlin 1945 and here is what my friend said about the Waffen SS after he read the book. I'm trying to refute his opinion that the Waffen SS avoided battle and went west towards South East Hamburg to surrender to the British and to avoid fighting the Russians, while placing Hitler Jugend and Volksstrum as a buffer between them and the Russians. Thus forcing others to do their dirty work. My friend's just read Beevor's book and quotes from it to back up his low opinion of the Waffen SS.
          I need evidence on the contrary. I thought I was knowledgeable, but I guess I'm not.

          Here's my friends quote...

          "At the moment I'm reading the fall of Berlin 1945. The Waffen SS took a pretty callous attitude towards their own civilians conscripting young kids and old men into the Volksstrum. If you ask me this was a bit of unnecessary slaughter considering their own officers had retreated far behind the front lines and were already preparing their own getaway. Himmler in particular seemed to be a bit of a shyster!!!

          Anthony Beevor says "Executions by the SS, including a number of Hitler Youth,were even more unforgivable since word was being passed round SS formations that they were to pull back 'with orders to reassemble in Schleswig-Holstein' near the Danish border, which was not exactly the best place from which to fight the Russians. They did not appear to know that the British Second Army had reached the Elbe at Lauenburg that day, just south-east of Hamburg" (abridged from the Antony Beever book).
          40 % is not a high casualty rate from these supposedly devoted, fanatical warriors. In comparison, the average casualty rate in a Japanese unit in the war was considerably higher. They didn't exactly practice fighting to the last man which they tried to enforce upon the wehrmacht, volksstrum and even the Hitler Youth from well behind the front lines."

          Comment

            #6
            I dont think that Waffen SS avoided battle. Considering the casualties (killed,wounded,missing) of the Waffens SS during the war they surely did not avoid battle. Divisions like Totenkopf, Leibstandarte, Wiking and some others fought in some of the hardest battles of the war and had huge casualtie rates where known as some of the best divisions of the war.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Casualties

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_W...nch_of_service

            Soldier of the Waffen SS by Bruce Quarrie (Osprey Publishing) is a good start to learn about the training, spirit, morale and fighting cappabilities of the Waffen SS.You can find many more if you search the internet. SS feldgendarmerie is most likely responsible about executions, forced recruitments etc during the end of the war but not the Waffen SS frontline soldiers...they already had too much trouble dealing with Soviets.

            Regards,
            Fotis
            Last edited by general1900; 01-07-2010, 08:03 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              "HITLERS PRAETORIANS - The history of the Waffen SS 1925-45" is a great book.

              It details each of their battles including Kursk, Caen, Arnhem, Falaise,Ardennes, Budapest and Berlin. Also a section on Waffen SS atrocities

              Comment

                #8
                What a ridiculous proposition...any number of general sources on the internet will confirm the ferocious often so-called fanatical fighting spirit of the Waffen SS...Look for a History of the LAH which was reconstituted at least three times over from memory...Other units, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Prinz Eugen, Hitler Jugend and others all had fierce fighting reputations...

                You could recommend a book called "Sons of the Reich: History of the II SS Panzer Corps" is a good read and demonstrtates the fighting spirit of the SS Pz formations...You could also recommend some basic DVDs like the War Files episode on the Waffen SS or on the LAH.
                Last edited by Steve P; 01-07-2010, 12:01 PM.
                Cheers, Steve
                ----------------------------------------------------------------
                "Next to a battle lost, the saddest thing is a battle won." Arthur Wellesley — Duke of Wellington

                Comment

                  #9
                  Think you will find the Beevor book on the fall of Berlin the best out there
                  on the subject.
                  Also there are plenty of other book's,which point out that in the last days of the war the German ss didn't want to fall into the hands of the Russians.
                  So they made there way to the west to surrender to the Americans or British.
                  Also from 43 onwards the waffen ss conscripted a lot of personel e.g the Lufftwaffe who ended up in the LSSAH.
                  Also they were not the best division's of the war.
                  @Anthony, Hitlers Gauls by Jonathan Trigg
                  Pour L'europe by Robert Forbes
                  Soldiers of the Leibstandarte by Thomas Fischer
                  all have good chapters on the fighting in Berlin
                  Best Jamie

                  Comment

                    #10
                    The fact of the matter is that the bulk of the German SS had been committed to Hungary (1st, 2d, 3d, 5th, 9th, 12th and 16th Divisions) while the 4th Division was north of Berlin with Army Group North and the 9th Division was just south of Berlin with the 11th defending the city proper. The 6th and 17th Divisions were in the west; the 7th and 18th in Czechoslovakia and the 8th Division no longer existed having died in Budapest.

                    On Hitler`s death and the fall of Berlin, divisions in the east generally broke contact and tried to escape west but until then, they fought very hard indeed. Beevor has it wrong.

                    Mike

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Thanks guys!! Much appreciated. I love the cameraderie of this forum!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        And if you want a great book about the fighting in Berlin then get Bloody Streets...
                        http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Stree...2886068&sr=1-1

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by leib1 View Post
                          Think you will find the Beevor book on the fall of Berlin the best out there
                          on the subject.
                          Also there are plenty of other book's,which point out that in the last days of the war the German ss didn't want to fall into the hands of the Russians.
                          So they made there way to the west to surrender to the Americans or British.
                          Also from 43 onwards the waffen ss conscripted a lot of personel e.g the Lufftwaffe who ended up in the LSSAH.
                          Also they were not the best division's of the war.
                          @Anthony, Hitlers Gauls by Jonathan Trigg
                          Pour L'europe by Robert Forbes
                          Soldiers of the Leibstandarte by Thomas Fischer
                          all have good chapters on the fighting in Berlin
                          Best Jamie
                          Thanks Jamie, added them to my Amazon wish list.

                          What you say does bear repeating.

                          Before & at the beginning of the war the WSS were truly elite.
                          By the mid to late war, they were nothing of the sort. Infact, they even recruited those that they had earlier called subhuman.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Steve P View Post
                            What a ridiculous proposition...any number of general sources on the internet will confirm the ferocious often so-called fanatical fighting spirit of the Waffen SS...Look for a History of the LAH which was reconstituted at least three times over from memory...Other units, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, Prinz Eugen, Hitler Jugend and others all had fierce fighting reputations...

                            You could recommend a book called "Sons of the Reich: History of the II SS Panzer Corps" is a good read and demonstrtates the fighting spirit of the SS Pz formations...You could also recommend some basic DVDs like the War Files episode on the Waffen SS or on the LAH.
                            I agree with "Sons of the Reich"

                            Nick

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Stickgrenade View Post
                              I agree with "Sons of the Reich"

                              Nick
                              Thanks guys. Funnily enough my friends from Yorkshire too.

                              Comment

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