Books about the Waffen SS officers and the truth!

[Ilse]

book

Here is the book you really should read

The Waffen SS: Hitler’s Elite Guard at War by Stein

[leib1]

Ayup Anthony,
Depends what you mean by elite
Fallschrimjager were elite and the Brandenburgers
why were the waffen ss elite ?
Best Jamie

[Anthony N]

Hi Jamie, i would say elite means troops who:

Have higher entrance requirements than the norm
Have better & more intensive training than the average troops
Have more specialist training than the norm, especially on a wider range of guns, equipment etc
Have a higher stamina requirement than the norm

That's off the top of my head, but i would say that fits with WSS troops who joined pre War & early way, but not necessarily after 1943.

[TJ Suter]

Beevor's Berlin: The Downfall 1945 is the best book I've read on the subject. He used a lot of original sources that I hadn't seen before. His book Stalingrad is also top notch. I didn't like his The Battle For Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939. I haven't read D-Day: The Battle for Normandy, yet.

[Bond]

There is a very readable account of one mans view of part of the battle of Berlin in 'WITH OUR BACKS TO BERLIN', (2001) by Tony Le Tissier.
Its the last chapter and is about a nco from the LSSAH.
I always enjoyed the first half of 'Grenadiers', especially when in Greece, he gets his men to attack by throwing grenades at them. Some of the mad charges he takes part in, Obviously a man of great courage.

Jerry

[Anthony N]

To bring this discussion back round, i have done just a little research (been busy with my accounts )

SS Units who did not follow their orders during actions classed as the Battle of Berlin, 28th April - 1st May 1945:

Battlegroup led by SS Colonel Rudiger Pipkorn who broke out to join the Hans von Luck Battlegroup (can recommend Hans von Luck's Panzer Commander). I do not have a breakdown of the units in Battlegroup Pipkorn, but they travelled north along Strasse 96 (parallel to the Dresden-Berlin Autobahn) before turning west somewhere around Baruth.

Also, XI SS Panzer were the spearhead of the 9th army's breakout and V SS Mountain Corps were part of the rear guard (with V Corps).

XI SS Panzer broke through the first soviet lines on 28th April with the main body of the 9th Army following. There were several more Russian cordons to break through & the slaughter at Halbe is an incredible side story to the Battle of Berlin which is well worth reading about.

You will be interested to know that the V SS Mountain corps did not manage to break through. They were destroyed (with 21st Panzer) in such an intense battle that the Russians thought they had destroyed a large part of the 9th army & consequently many more soldiers managed to escape than might have done.

Obviously Hitler did not order any of these SS Units to fight west to surrender to the western allies.

I can also recommend Beevor's Berlin & also Cornelius Ryan's book on the battle.

[leib1]

There is a very readable account of one mans view of part of the battle of Berlin in 'WITH OUR BACKS TO BERLIN', (2001) by Tony Le Tissier.
Its the last chapter and is about a nco from the LSSAH.
I always enjoyed the first half of 'Grenadiers', especially when in Greece, he gets his men to attack by throwing grenades at them. Some of the mad charges he takes part in, Obviously a man of great courage.

Jerry

Sorry Jerry,
but you can't take Grenadiers that serious Meyer exaggerates all the way through in my opion.
Best Jamie

[leib1]

Hi Jamie, i would say elite means troops who:

Have higher entrance requirements than the norm
Have better & more intensive training than the average troops
Have more specialist training than the norm, especially on a wider range of guns, equipment etc
Have a higher stamina requirement than the norm

That's off the top of my head, but i would say that fits with WSS troops who joined pre War & early way, but not necessarily after 1943.

Hi Anthony,
yes i can go with them requirments,but which SS division fits them?
I think it was only post war authors who termed the word Elite to sell
books.
As i think the first three started life as motorized rgts scrounging equipment.The lssah spent most of the time on ceremonial duties
the verfugungstruppe were maybe the best out of the three.Still not elite though.Also they went on to committe some of the worse atrocitys of the war.
Best Jamie

[PBR]

I've liked a lot "The Cruel Hunters" and "Himmler Bosnian Divisions", two of the most serious and honest WSS books I've ever read.

[Anthony N]

Hi Anthony,
yes i can go with them requirments,but which SS division fits them?
I think it was only post war authors who termed the word Elite to sell
books.
As i think the first three started life as motorized rgts scrounging equipment.The lssah spent most of the time on ceremonial duties
the verfugungstruppe were maybe the best out of the three.Still not elite though.Also they went on to committe some of the worse atrocitys of the war.
Best Jamie

Hi Jamie
An interesting discussion.
The more i think about it, the more the evidence is contradictory.

Yes the W-SS were poorly equipped throughout their history, having to rely on czech rifles & the such like.
Yes, basic training of the W-SS was totally inadequate which showed in their performance in Poland. It involved far too much political indoctrination.

But here's where it starts to get contradictory.

Theoretically W-SS training was to start with basic training & after that the recruits should have gone to specialist training for whichever arm they were to join eg Panzer, Mountain etc. Did this happen in practice & if so how often.

Also it is said that their training was so intensive that one in three recruits failed to pass. However, this could be propoganda of the time & those recruits could have failed on the political training.

The more i look into it the more contradictory the evidence seems, and i am no expert on the W-SS.

One thing that i'm glad you brought up is the attrocities of the W-SS. However much the research over the years has shown that the Waffen SS were involved in many attrocities, collectors don't seem to want to believe it. It should also be pointed out that attrocities were also perpetrated by most nations, British, American, Moroccan, Russian & the list goes on.

[Bond]

Sorry Jerry,
but you can't take Grenadiers that serious Meyer exaggerates all the way through in my opion.
Best Jamie

Thanks for the info Jamie. It was probably too good a read to be all true.
The other account I listed is also in the same vein, a ripping yarn, but maybe a bit of a story.

Jerry

[pasoleati]

All of Beevor´s texts are basically worthless. His Normandy book is absolutely horrendous. Beevor is simply incapable of writing history in a professional and neutral manner as one would expect from an ex-career military. I just read Major J. J. How´s Normandy book Hill 112. What a huge difference to Beevor´s political ramblings! There is a very damning review on his Normandy book in Finnish Cadet Officer´s journal written by a retired Staff Colonel.

[juoneen]

I like photos, and "all the brothers are silent" (author , i cant recall) was one put together as a colaboration by the ex ss members , Post war..with photos they all had together. The early issues were unfortunately only in german. Its a quite expensive book, as in the late 70s, early 80s, it was around 80.00 US. Today I dont know, but it is printed in english,or eventually was, and a rather large size book. Has...A little of everything at least. 1" thick, or so.

[Jaegerhando]

All of Beevor´s texts are basically worthless. His Normandy book is absolutely horrendous. Beevor is simply incapable of writing history in a professional and neutral manner as one would expect from an ex-career military. I just read Major J. J. How´s Normandy book Hill 112. What a huge difference to Beevor´s political ramblings! There is a very damning review on his Normandy book in Finnish Cadet Officer´s journal written by a retired Staff Colonel.

Hi could you please elaborate on what the damning review by the Finnish Colonel said about Beevor's book? I am very interested to know what Beevor says is not neutral or unproffesional. Thanks!

[Anthony N]

I like photos, and "all the brothers are silent" (author , i cant recall) was one put together as a colaboration by the ex ss members , Post war..with photos they all had together. The early issues were unfortunately only in german. Its a quite expensive book, as in the late 70s, early 80s, it was around 80.00 US. Today I dont know, but it is printed in english,or eventually was, and a rather large size book. Has...A little of everything at least. 1" thick, or so.

The book in question is "Wenn alle bruder schweigen".
It is a must for anyone with an interest in the Waffen SS. It is basically a picture book & the pictures are incredible. They are all from the personal photo's of members of the W-SS veterans association & stretch from the beginning to end of the war & cover most theatres of war.
560 pages with hardly any text.
$80.00/£50.00 is about the cheapest you'll find it. Double check postage costs though, it's a heavy book.
I got mine through Abe books.