the forgotten soldier

[J.von Canon]

Good grief!

This old fake account will probably be cluttering up serious historical research for many years.
Just how valid an account it is,made from such comments as that a "Wallonian SS liked the book"???
A U.S.Navy veteran who enjoyed reading THE CAINE MUTINY would hardly be a case to be made for its being a "historical account."
This novel has been pulled from military reading lists because it cannot be verified to be other than a work of fiction.
Being a "historian" is hardly a prerequisite for knowing a fake account.Many "historians" were fooled by this book for years.
Actually,the entire Wehrmacht Awards website has few actual professional "historians" but even so it is likely the single best "think-tank" of World War memorabilia,etc. than any other place one is likely to find anywhere.
This book has been talked about on a number of previous threads and this is only the latest commentary.
Some people will insist the book is a great historical work,no matter what evidence there is to the contrary.
But of all the thousands of World War II books in print-this book is just about the only one that comes to mind that lacks the most basic validity of origin.
The author of this thing must laugh all the way to the bank as new readership constantly is buying it and lapping it up as a historical account.
It's a novel.Period....

[F L Clemens]

Thanks, JvC, agree entirely with what you posted.

There is a HUGE emotional attachment which many people have made to this book. They were told that it is the "All Quiet on the Western Front" for WW2 and often times it was the first account they read of a German soldier so they treat it like the Bible. I have met many people who have read it multiple times and their eyes light up when they talk about it.
But there is a difference between emotions and facts. A good novelist can portray the emotions of a character without ever having been in the situation himself. If that wasn't the case then fiction writers would be out of business very quickly. The best novelists are able to include a framework of facts which gives the novel the feeling of authenticity.
In the case of TFS, the author went just a little bit overboard in trying to simulate the facts around his character. For example, he deliberately drops names like Rudel, Guderian, and Stulpnagel which would have been known to his French readers, but fails to actually place them in their proper context. The use of these names is not just an error, they are a deliberate technique.
Another technique is the invention of character names. The author tried to use names which sounded German to him, but in reality are nonsensical to a German speaker. Out of curiosity, I compared his main character names to the database of family names in Germany and about 90% were non-existent. So much for authenticity. The equivalent would be for a Russian to write a book set in America with character names like Smiglones and Ranthif. They might look American to a non-English speaker, but they stink to a native speaker.

Anyway, Bernard, have fun coming up with excuses for all the bogus material in the novel. Good luck with your historian's work, you will need it!

[Bernard]

Being a "historian" is hardly a prerequisite for knowing a fake account.

Really ? So you pretend to be better than a professional ? Let me laugh. I will prefer the opinion of someone who made hard studies and who is used to work with historical testimonies.

Anyway, I will not enter in an useless talk about this book's authenticity. Everything as been said about it and I don't know why we would lose our time.

Anyway, Bernard, have fun coming up with excuses for all the bogus material in the novel. Good luck with your historian's work, you will need it!

Dear Clemens, my scientific work is getting fine. I actually have 10 historical publications. May I ask you what studies did you made and what is your job ?

[F L Clemens]

I will not enter in an useless talk about this book's authenticity. Everything as been said about it and I don't know why we would lose our time.

But that is the point of this thread, isn't it? Or do you prefer that everyone simply praise or criticize the book without any true analysis?

I apologize for using the icon earlier. I wouldn't like to see this be a manhood contest when it should be about the book. This is not a personal credentials debate, it is an honest, factual debate about the contents of TFS.

Bernard, I challenge you to respond to the points I already made, including the rather glaring points that the author himself called it a novel and that the events start one year before he was old enough to have experienced them. Just answer those points with factual argumentation.

[Bernard]

Ok Clemens. As long as we don't enter in a fight I will continue talking. I will try to bring factual points but I will need few days. (In fact I must take back my copy of the Forgotten soldier from my brother's home). Btw where do you come from ?

[behblc]

"The Willing Flesh"

"The Willing Flesh" by Willi Heinrich - better known as "The Cross of Iron" another work of fiction but as fiction goes its a great read.

[behblc]

"The Willing Flesh"

Its been a few years since I read "The Forgotten Soldier" , which was a good read.
"The Willing Flesh" and " The Savage Mountain" by Willi Henerich are also worthwhile.

[fuser1]

like i said a good book(maybe novel, maybe true story)one thing is true, these book still involves controversy

[Craigob]

just to add to this, some of this info has already been posted

Mouminoux is his real last name - Sajer is his mother's maiden name. He used his mother's maiden name when he enlisted in the German Army during WW2 because Mouminoux means "my little pus-sy" in French <-- (not to sure about the pussy thing)

He became a writer of comic books under the pseudonym Dimitri. One called "Kursk Tourmente d'Acier" is about the battle of Battle of Kursk from view of a German foot soldier.

also Im belong to the GD living history group here on the eastern seaboard and thus we have very close ties with the veterans assoc. in germany, esp Cottbus were the training was and the barracks are - there is no record of Guy in the rolls.

you know there is a movie planned of this book, the filming location is Poland, anyways heres the man himself

[J.von Canon]

[QUOTE=Bernard]Really ? So you pretend to be better than a professional ? Let me laugh. I will prefer the opinion of someone who made hard studies and who is used to work with historical testimonies.

Ah,Bernard!
Well,if you really want to get personal-actually,I AM A PROFESSIONAL HISTORIAN...
I hold 2 "historical" degrees,as well as 27 years military background(if you include a degree in Archaeology)but I will be the first to tell you that historians are often quite ignorant about history...
Like I said,one does'nt have to be a historian to see this books lack of credentials.
Since there is a "FAKE" gallery for bogus medals on the Wehrmacht Awards website-I would like to nominate The Forgotten Soldier to the FAKES gallery.
If you "G.D."reenactors want to worship at the font of "Guy Sajer"-then go right ahead...

[Craigob]

If you "G.D."reenactors want to worship at the font of "Guy Sajer"-then go right ahead...

who said anything about worship?, i dont recall that?.. now your picking fights with me, go pay the $25.00 membership fee and then we will tumble

[J.von Canon]

who said anything about worship?, i dont recall that?.. now your picking fights with me, go pay the $25.00 membership fee and then we will tumble

"If" ""If" "If"-was said...
Picking fights?
Pay $25.oo to tumble"?

[Craigob]

"If" ""If" "If"-was said...
Picking fights?
Pay $25.oo to tumble"?

yeah then we can tumble verbally in the Assoc. members forum, ill be waiting there

[J.von Canon]

yeah then we can tumble verbally in the Assoc. members forum, ill be waiting there

Hmmm...
Why not now? (the "tumble",or whatever...)

[J.von Canon]

Got tired of waiting to "tumble..."
Out,here!