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**ironcross13** · 01-31-2016, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post

Yes, this is timed perfectly. It is about politics, continuing the state of perpetual guilt, sending a message to those who oppose current policies, and is pretty pitiful. Police forces in Germany are taxed to the limit and deployed to the borders, leaving the cities underpoliced, and this is how they use some of their resources right now?

Yeah makes alot of sense get everyone to feel guilty about them self's and family's.
Its sad when you see what happend in Koln on new-years eve and other German city's police seem to be over run then. Also the papers took 4 days to report it and tried to cover it up.

Also i thought all the Americans like Trump as he spoke truth and was a true American Patriot

**Lloyd I.** · 01-31-2016, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by ironcross13 View Post

Also i thought all the Americans like Trump as he spoke truth and was a true American Patriot

That's a bit simplistic isnt it? Like saying all Germans support Pegida or NPD today. And what does Trump or American politics have to do with this story?

What is true is every German is supposed to be imbued with some form of National Guilt further perpetuated in our schooling growing up. If you show any pride in say your own families military history in the war you end up sitting with school counselors who explain to you why its important to recognize the past as criminal on the whole. Everyone is guilty. It is what is being cast off in Germany now as the young are sick of carrying burdens many times removed from any source.

Equating membership in the 12th SS-Panzer-Division to the murder of 89 at Ascq is like saying an entire division is responsible for this murder. It didnt take a Division or for that matter that many rifles to shoot 89. It's a witch hunt.

**chrischa** · 01-31-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Lloyd I. View Post

Equating membership in the 12th SS-Panzer-Division to the murder of 89 at Ascq is like saying an entire division is responsible for this murder. It didnt take a Division or for that matter that many rifles to shoot 89. It's a witch hunt.

I don't disagree. It's a nonsense to associate these guys with the massacre just because they were in the HJ division. Will all German men who served in WW2 be raided next because they were in the war and could have witnessed something?

**ironcross13** · 01-31-2016, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Lloyd I. View Post

That's a bit simplistic isnt it? Like saying all Germans support Pegida or NPD today. And what does Trump or American politics have to do with this story?

What is true is every German is supposed to be imbued with some form of National Guilt further perpetuated in our schooling growing up. If you show any pride in say your own families military history in the war you end up sitting with school counselors who explain to you why its important to recognize the past as criminal on the whole. Everyone is guilty. It is what is being cast off in Germany now as the young are sick of carrying burdens many times removed from any source.

Equating membership in the 12th SS-Panzer-Division to the murder of 89 at Ascq is like saying an entire division is responsible for this murder. It didnt take a Division or for that matter that many rifles to shoot 89. It's a witch hunt.

Look at post 12 that's why i mention Trump.

**chrischa** · 01-31-2016, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by ironcross13 View Post

Look at post 12 that's why i mention Trump.

I mentioned Trump because of the previous posts in this thread. Not sure how your comment relates to mine though...

**Gran Sasso** · 01-31-2016, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by chrischa View Post

It wasn't an invasion it was a liberation.

So you better hurry educating all authors of all books dealing with ww2, they Name the event took place at that time at that place incorrectly "Invasion"...

**Gran Sasso** · 01-31-2016, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by chrischa View Post

Would you still have this view if it was knocklein or Mohnke bought to justice for killing hundreds of British troops after surrender?

A young **** will become an old **** given time.

I wonder if i live long enough to See at least one Allied solider bringing to court for killing a german soldier after he surrendered...

**chrischa** · 01-31-2016, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post

So you better hurry educating all authors of all books dealing with ww2, they Name the event took place at that time at that place incorrectly "Invasion"...

No need. Just my opinion.

**chrischa** · 01-31-2016, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post

I wonder if i live long enough to See at least one Allied solider bringing to court for killing a german soldier after he surrendered...

Totally missed the point of my post. It was directed at a British member in relation to him perhaps being unaware of German crimes against British troops following his blanket comment.

The German criminals I mentioned commited their crimes early war. They commited their crimes with no excuse of retaliation. They commited murder of British soldiers with a belief they could with no retribution.

I make no excuses for allied soldiers killing German soldiers nor am I in a position to.

Any other comments of mine you want to quote?

**ironcross13** · 01-31-2016, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Lloyd I. View Post

That's a bit simplistic isnt it? Like saying all Germans support Pegida or NPD today. And what does Trump or American politics have to do with this story?

What is true is every German is supposed to be imbued with some form of National Guilt further perpetuated in our schooling growing up. If you show any pride in say your own families military history in the war you end up sitting with school counselors who explain to you why its important to recognize the past as criminal on the whole. Everyone is guilty. It is what is being cast off in Germany now as the young are sick of carrying burdens many times removed from any source.

Equating membership in the 12th SS-Panzer-Division to the murder of 89 at Ascq is like saying an entire division is responsible for this murder. It didnt take a Division or for that matter that many rifles to shoot 89. It's a witch hunt.

Yes i just reread my comment and did not mean all Americans like Trump just meant he has a big following and is not scared to speak out about world events seems to be popular. I just replied to the other member.

Dose seem like a witch hunt and seems alot of other crimes in Germany are not being followed up in 2015-2016 never mind going back to 1945 crazy.

**chrischa** · 01-31-2016, 01:44 PM

Just to be clear Ironcross, I'm just sharing my thoughts, not trying to give you a hard time. Same to to Gran Sasso.

I do think these chaps should be left alone. I'm selfish that I care about crimes against Brits and perhaps less so against other nations. I commented where I should have kept quiet.

**TP Alexander** · 01-31-2016, 01:49 PM

Keep cool everybody, keep cool!
This all happened 70 or more years ago and I am sure we could debate other war atrocities that have happened since then too. Bombing and shelling of Korean civilians by the US as they withdrew in front of the No. Korean advance, My Lai, the world ignoring the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, etc. There are always two sides to a story and both of them can always have their relative merits. It just depends on what 'piece of soil' you are standing on, to speak metaphorically.
What I find interesting is that they are interviewing people that are at least 90 years old. How many people do you know in their 90's that aren't lost in the throes of dementia or Alzheimer's? Even if they are still relatively cognizant, I sincerely doubt that they can recall events from over 70 years ago with a precision that will be meaningful and worthwhile in any way.

**ironcross13** · 01-31-2016, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by chrischa View Post

Just to be clear Ironcross, I'm just sharing my thoughts, not trying to give you a hard time. Same to to Gran Sasso.

I do think these chaps should be left alone. I'm selfish that I care about crimes against Brits and perhaps less so against other nations. I commented where I should have kept quiet.

Yeah i don't think you are. I was just explaining why I mention Trump as it looked like i just bought him up for no reason.

Im British also think rules should apply for all sides of the war not just one.

Also to live to 90 is a good age for any man Help of god I reach that age. I think these men would be very frail and some maybe not well at all.

**FrenchVolunteer** · 01-31-2016, 03:00 PM

Hi,

i think that everybody, including the german authorities, forgot something : a trial already took place in France in 1949 ! I know that there is no prescription for "crimes against humanity", but if they really wanted to make a new trial, why the damn hell didn't they start earlier their search for criminals ?

See You

Vince

**frank m** · 01-31-2016, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by janc View Post

already read "verbrechen an die wehrmacht"? Same thing but the other side around... Those things happen at war. But it is criminal after all for both sides, not only for "nazis"

+1

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