Narwa Front !!

[Paul E]

Hi Etienne,

Your right the veterans from germany are mostly too old to make the trip now but maybe we should have a younger mermbers trip ??

The stones do get damaged but last time i was there they were ok , although even after repair they still show remains of the damage , the Korps Steiner memorial has had a hammer taken to it !!!

cheers

Paul

[mdj]

Paul,

I would love to visit the battlefileds sites one day.

Have been there once in Estonia, Tallinn....Great city, place and nightlife.

Martin

[Paul E]

Paul,

I would love to visit the battlefileds sites one day.

Have been there once in Estonia, Tallinn....Great city, place and nightlife.

Martin

Hi Martin,

You would love it especially with the Dutch volunteer connection plus we also try to include plenty of time to enjoy the Tallinn sites and nightlife !!!

Would be great to have you along in the future,

regards

Paul

[Etienne B.]

Hi,

Maybe we can arrange something.Would be very interesting.Here some photos of the Dutch volunteers memorial stone.

[JEROEN1944]

I`m oke with a memorial for soldiers of all nations, but i like that you remove the picture with the Dutch text on it. It`s realy offensive.
For the non Dutch speaken people the text is:

In rememberance of the KIA, MIA
and in POW killed Dutch frontsoldiers,
nurses and helpers who performed
in World War 2 in
Eastern Europe 1941 - 1945
loyaly there duty.

The Dutch text is more offensive in Dutch then in English. I have problems with the last line of text. I`m sorry that some people dont want to hear this. We are a non-political forum. You can read the text in Dutch as a political statment.

Jeroen

[Etienne B.]

You are off course entitled to your own opinion.But in my eyes it is not offensive at all.It says 'that the loyally served their duty''.In my opinion this counts for every soldier on the planet.

regards,

Etienne

[blackadder]

Etiene, for you as waffen SS collector it might sound ´right´ but I have to agree with Jeroen here...
the line ´loyally served their duty´ says in all its words that the dutch people had only one right thing to do and that was to join the nazi´s.
Well, I spit on that !
the choose to join the enemy of their country and thats it... no more no less

[Etienne B.]

Spitting on graves sound like a bad habit to me.This is a stone which was meant not for the dutch public in general but for those who fought in the Narwa region and the eastern front as a whole.

The volunteers choose a side with their best knowledge at that moment in time.Swore a soldier's oath and went into battle for their beliefs.
And if you like it or not the dutch volunteers fought brave(4 knight's crosses among other high awards) and a third of them fell during the war.That was meant by the last words.............

nothing more but certain nothing less!

I suggest that we take this discussion to the pm level we are hijacking anothers one thread.

regards,

Etienne

[sscrooge]

Thanks for showing these pics Paul rgds Dave

[dmwg40]

thanks for the pictures

[jacquesf]

Collecting german militaria and then taking issue with a monument to fallen soldiers is just hypocrisy. It just as much part of history as a helmet or medal. I understand the dutch and does not find it offensive at all. Jacques

[tropenmilitaria]

Collecting german militaria and then taking issue with a monument to fallen soldiers is just hypocrisy.

Correct Jacques Let us stick to the history and keep the politics out of our discussions. I just ordered Michael Pruett's book on the battle and look forward to receiving it.

[mdj]

normally when it comes to political issues this thread or posts would have been closed or infractions would have been given.

But in this case some people don't care or don't know what the issue is about. They only care for own issues.

IMO there's nothing wrong with posting pictures of a Dutch SS monument no mather what the text is.

You can discuss about the last sentence on the monument about "their duty". Dutch SS volunteers did NOT do their duty, they were volunteers. If they did their duty, they would have fought for their own country.

martin

[Etienne B.]

I would prefer to leave politics out of this discussion.The stone was erected for the fallen dutch volunteers.There are memorial stones for other countries as well overthere.But we stick to this one.

The dutch volunteers were not forced to join the german forces.They simply choose a side during the conflict.They took an oath and fought regarding THAT oath loyally on the German side.

I simply can not see why someone should fight against his own beliefs.Regardless if his county is occupied or not.

I rest my case

[JEROEN1944]

Well its disturbs me alot that there is a national Dutch flag over a Dutch SS memorial. Looks like the people in Holland including the crown honour the fallen SS soldiers in eastern europe. Let the flag and text away.
Think about the victems of the German aggressor. It seems the yes sayers have to learn alot abour rudnes and respect. What you do in eastern europe i dont care but i dont like such text and our national flag over the memorial. They no Dutch anymore, better put a German national flag over it. Many of the Dutch people still call Dutch SS volunteers traitors, although i dont always agree with it.

Jeroen