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**Don D.** · 08-07-2010, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post

I think it is quite clear that if the Japanese had had the atomic bomb, they would have used it with no hesitation. If you look at the number of casualties caused by the atomic bombs, they arent particularly heavy compared to casualties caused by all the conventional bombings that occured in WW2. Bombing civilians was the way that things were done by all sides in WW2.

However, I cant help but be ironicaly reminded of some statements that were made in my thread about flechettes a couple of days ago.

"That is what war is about, killing the enemy. Terrorists kill far more innocent civilians though and not the soldiers they claim to be fighting. "

"I think what makes it despicable is that the terrorists usually set off said bomb in an Market , Cafe , or Pizzeria. "

It seems to me like the atomic bombs are a fine case where double standards are used to define what type of action occured.

JL

Different types of war JL. One would think a smart guy like you would know that. Perhaps you did have an adgenda in the other thread and have now brought it here. Whatever. You live in peace now because we won then and have maintained the peace since then in Europe. Or perhaps you long for the good old days where every 20-30 years Europe liked to rampage around and kill thier neighbors......

The bomb was a good thing. Personally I would give every country in the world several of them and force all of them into a binding agreement to help destroy any country that used them. Mutual Assured Destruction works.

By the by, fire bombing of Tokyo killed more people in one night than the A bombs did.

And there is a big difference between a dumb bomb and a direct fire weapon, ie the flechette round from the previos thread. Apples and oranges.

**AndrewK** · 08-07-2010, 02:51 PM

The fact that an invasion of Japan would cost many lives has been brought up, but there is another major issue that is often overlooked when discussing the bombings, and that is this map:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...tion_zones.png

Had the US waited around for all the Allies to prepare their forces for an invasion of Japan this is what the country would have looked like after the war, and that would have certainly made the Cold War more interesting, to say the least. There is no way Japan would have become the economic powerhouse it did had this occurred, since they were only able to focus on their economy because defense was not much of an issue. Not to mention the potential for a DPRKesque state in the north with concentration camps dotted throughout Hokkaido. Not to say that the deaths of thousands of civilians isn't a terrible thing, but in the long run I think Japan definitely came out ahead because of the bombings.

**Seigfried** · 08-07-2010, 04:05 PM

Strange how this 'Hiroshima Memorial' thread has already degenerated into a ' yes they deserved it' / 'it wasn't a military target' thread

**airborne_steve** · 08-08-2010, 07:40 AM

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As an American I'm not looking for an apology from anyone, Japan, Germany, Russia, etc, etc. If Japan has any honor it won't seek and apology either and just regard the bombing as the result of war and what happens when one nation engages in war with another nation. You can't win wars by being the nice guy and there were no nice guys during this war. <o

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Nobody can claim the moral high ground and it is ridiculous to do so. I don't blame the US for the use of the bomb just like I don't blame the Japanese for the tactics they used to prosecute the war. That is just the way it was a still is.

I'll tell you one thing, if my son was a soldier I would want the government to do everything it could to end the war as fast (fast=lives) as possible and in this case, fast was the bomb.

Steve
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**DennyB** · 08-08-2010, 06:17 PM

[QUOTE=Gran Sasso;4154265]Thats no excuse IMO to kill a whole city full of civilians, and without military objects - just to test a new weapon.

If they had choosen a military target, no problem, but that way...
QUOTE]

Hmmm... A military target in a country where they were training every person that could stand up to fight to the death with primative tools? It would appear to me that everything was a military target. Dropping the bombs saved millions of lives on both sides.

**DaveNZ** · 08-08-2010, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by DennyB View Post

Dropping the bombs saved millions of lives on both sides.

Thats right

we had to "destory the town to save it"

**DaveNZ** · 08-08-2010, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by airborne_steve View Post

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o

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[COLOR=#f7f7f7][FONT=Verdana]As an American I'm not looking for an apology from anyone, Japan, Germany, Russia, etc, etc. If Japan has any honor it won't seek and apology either and just regard the bombing as the result of war and what happens when one nation engages in war with another nation. You can't win wars by being the nice guy and there were no nice guys during this war. <o

></o

>
<o

></o

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Nobody can claim the moral high ground and it is ridiculous to do so. I don't blame the US for the use of the bomb just like I don't blame the Japanese for the tactics they used to prosecute the war. That is just the way it was a still is.

[COLOR=#f7f7f7][FONT=Verdana]

I agree with a lot of what you say but the thing that gets me is the whole sham of War Trials against the Axis and the Axis only

**PlaceOfBayonets** · 08-08-2010, 08:03 PM

[QUOTE=DennyB;4157082]

Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post

Thats no excuse IMO to kill a whole city full of civilians, and without military objects - just to test a new weapon.

If they had choosen a military target, no problem, but that way...
QUOTE]

Hmmm... A military target in a country where they were training every person that could stand up to fight to the death with primative tools? It would appear to me that everything was a military target. Dropping the bombs saved millions of lives on both sides.

Denny,

I think that is a valid point about Japan training everyone to stand against the U.S. Invasion of the mainland. I wonder, would you also apply this to Pizza joints getting bombed in Israel? After all all but retired people in Israel are in the military one way or another and IDF troops spend a lot of time in those types of establishments. I am not being sarcastic, I think those places are ligitimate targets for the other side and I find it funny when the Israelis cry about it after what they dish out but I know many disagree.

I really do not think it matter why we dropped the bomb, even if to just test it Japan was so horrible in the way it fought it's enemies that droping THE bomb or any other bombs the USA dropped were all we deserved.

Japan got off lighter then did Germany and I don't know why that is. And I have read many about many reserachers who say that Japan was looking for any way to surrender when the bombs were dropped and that the U.S. knew it and dropped them anyway.

Even if true like I say matters not. Japan was pure evil. Nations reap what they sow, even we (U.S.) have in recent history.

W.

**Johnny Peppers** · 08-08-2010, 09:16 PM

The bomb had already been tested, and everyone was aware of it's destructive force before it was dropped on Japan. As AndrewK illustrated, the U.S. did not want Russia taking over a huge part of Japan, and the only way to keep Russia out was to end the war before Russia had a chance to get into the invasion of Japan.

**DennyB** · 08-08-2010, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by DaveNZ View Post

Thats right

we had to "destory the town to save it"

Dave, what would you have proposed then? Having American soldiers wading ashore where the estimates of casualties were 1-2 million? This is not taking into consideration the several million Japanese that would have had to have been killed in fanatical suicide charges or died by their own hand as they did on Okinawa.
Please offer us what YOU think the Americans should have done instead of your usual anti-USA rhetoric.

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