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**Eric JB** · 04-28-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by Xray View Post

Well, good for me then that I do not give a whit what you think.
You are a mod, you are in a position to taunt and issue childish cheap shots without worry of consequence, hence I'll drop this matter with the comment that "I believe what I want, you believe what you want".

Boy oooh boy, going into that direction now "mod, childish cheap shots, etc"

I am not a believer, but you boy, you believe your own goose stepping fairy tales.

I know that you aren't able to read, please try to find some one to read the mentioned link for you, you and are weren't there in those days, but the author of the article was..........or was he wrong too ?

yours

Eric-Jan

**stray_dog** · 04-28-2009, 06:39 PM

how about the fact that he was an Alcoholic?

...Or the fact that he was a formerly imprisoned sex offender, who by the words of his superiors and former comrades could somehow control himself in the limits of military service. He was respected for his bravery as he had been wounded several times but dread was his other weapon.

And this SS unit was not "just a part of the armed forces", as there was an effort by SS military tribunes to persecute members of it. SS political indoctrination courses made it clear that although the SS should be tough and relentless, they shouldn't find sadistic pleasure in their deeds, as they were above all soldiers and carriers of the NS ideology. So, what they did was outrageous even for the ranks of the SS.

Persecution after all these years can be problematic, as evidence against individuals can be practically non-existing and also due to the emotional process of the collective memory, that makes things more complicated. Judging people in these terms, in a courtroom, can be a farce. That is as long as we are discussing (?) within philological or juridical limits. Serious ideological struggle (for what ideologies count for today anyway) is another thing and yes, it can be relentless.

That last thing said, expressing what I really believe would not help the discussion (?) at all. I 'll just say that everyone has some opinion and mine is in the exact opposite side of national socialism. Just mentioning it for making it clear about everything that I wrote above, that maybe can be ambivalent, depending on the reader's point of view.

Giorgos

**Matthew** · 04-28-2009, 10:09 PM

.....

Originally posted by Xray View Post

I don't see NS ideology as complete, 100% evil - Nor do I see all Nazis themselves as complete evil.
For the most part, they were average, patriotic folk caught up in a whirl of events out of their control.
I collect TR because I find German militaria, by far, the most attractive and varied.
My family liniage is German, and I am not by any means completely shamed that the TR is part of this.
It seems to me that if I was completely repelled by all facets of the TR, as you appear to be, then I most certainly would not have any of these ghoulish mementos in my household ,,, Might throw off some bad karma on you, don't you think ?
If you could lay out your views without being condescending and overly cute, that would be nice.

ok, so you think that nazis were not all that bad, you find militaria attractive and me cute- must've been a long winter wherever you're at.

My views? Mostly 180 degrees from yours hence our friendly exchange of ideas here.
I think that nazis were all that bad and the "mostly patriotic folk" doesnt even cut it as a sunday brunch conversation with my family (german on my father's side). It doesnt take a genius to figure out that gassing people is not very patriotic by most people's standards. I've heard it all (or so I thought)- they were conscripted, they didnt know, they tried to get rid of nazis and did their duty for the fatherland and of course it were always the "other" folks that were nazis, never the ones I spoke to.
Ever wonder what happened to ALL the nazis after the war? I spoke to hundreds of folks and know of hundreds more but it seems they all disappeared from Germany after the war. Everyone I spoke to was (of course) anti-nazi.
So here we are talking about suspected members of 36th SS and I come across opinions like- oh, so long ago, who needs the trial now, ah, they're almost dead anyways so why bother, eh, bayonetted babies- mostly propaganda for the masses.
The one that really takes the cake for me is when someone mentioned that maybe they were cooks attached to 36th SS to prepare meals for the (and I use the term very loosely) "soldiers"
I got even better idea- I bet they were chaplains attached to that brigade to serve God
Then again-maybe they were the divisional mascots?

Are you kidding me????
Thats really what boils my blood- yes I want the suspects persecuted and if found guilty - fried for what they did.
I never said they should just shoot them and then ask questions and I assumed that was understood, however flipping the subject to "the true crimes" of WW2 and trying making the Allies the ones that really made Germans into bad guys whilst they really only wanted to uphold the peace simply will not fly for me.

You think that me not sharing your sentiment towards nazis and collecting german militaria is somehow not compatible and as you called it "bad karma" to have around the household- I strongly disagree. To me they are two different things. Some people collect stamps, coins or cars. I collect medals but that has got zero to do with my outlook on life or history.
I drive german cars- does that make me a believer into "nazis were not all that bad" train of thought? After all Porsche designed some naughty things during the war and was an SS-man himself. How about drinking german beer? Hitler liked german beer- does that make me a follower of nazi ideology?

Holocaust denial laws are a fact and anti-collecting laws might be next in line.
Why? Because majority of outsiders looking in see posts of people like you (sometimes nazis were a ok bunch of patriotic folks and so on).
We could argue till cows come home about say- Mengele did a lot to advance in medical fields but really ask yourself- would you give up yourself for the sake of his experiments? (only if you dont think that the whole Mengele experimenting on humans is true and not some shameful propaganda that is).

Summarising- I think that people like you will do to this hobby what Jack the Ripper did to late night shopping (and I hope thats not overly cute to you)
Good night
Matt

**Xray** · 04-28-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Matthew View Post

(and I hope thats not overly cute to you)
Matt

I assumed that the whole thing was, so didn't read it.
I have no interest in back & forth banter with you, and will not even attempt a point by point rejoinder to that monstrosity.
Hope you feel better now that you've gotten it out of your system though.

**J Melvin** · 04-29-2009, 08:48 AM

And, it's done. Congrats on no infractions.

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Notorious SS unit 'traced'

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