Use of gas during WWII combat

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hitler did not use the new nerve agents, Tabun and Sarin, because he wrongly assumed that the Allies would have developed similar chemical weapons. Thank goodness he was wrong!

Cheers, Ade.

[W Petz]

When I was working in Grafenwoehr, Germany I use to visit the Town Museum. They had alot of information about the Grafenwoehr training area during WW1 and WW2. Gas was used in the training area during WW1 but not in WW2. There was however a storage facility that contained gas shells which was discovered by the American forces when they captured the training area in Apr/May 1945. So they had the ability & stockpiles but never used it.

[Jean-Loup]

"Actually I believe German soldiers were inspected daily by their officers to check they were carrying the cannister AND THE MASK (its very handy for sarnies or ciggies...). On a charge otherwise...
Plenty of photos of mid and late war of them carrying them."

Yes, there are plenty of late war photos showing the masks, but even more photos showing no mask being worn.
Some even say they were told by german vets that they threw away the masks and used the cans to transport things. I dont believe this was a widespread practis though.

[Bobwirtz]

The gas masks could also be worn whenever the enemy used smoke to obscure their attack formations. That smoke was chemically created and therefore rather toxic in itself. If this is true (not an expert on this subject), then wouldn't this be a good enough reason to keep it around?

Bob

[The Sorrow]

I am not aware of any combat use of poisonous gas during WWII, although I believe the Japanese MAY have used it in China (?) It is strange that the Germans did not resort to the use of gas against the Soviets in 1945, perhaps they thought the consequences would be too great, how? I dont know.

This may be of interest

On December 2nd, 1943, German bombers attacked American tankers and munitions ships in Bari Harbor off the southeast coast of Italy. They sank sixteen ships, partially destroyed four more, and set off at least two major explosions. The fires burned while hundreds of oil-soaked men were pulled out of the water.
At first, many of the survivors seemed to be all right, though a few mentioned the odd smell of garlic. Soon they began showing symptoms -- stinging eyes, skin lesions, a variety of internal problems. Four survivors died later the first day, nine the next. By the end of a month 83 men, out of the 617 who'd made it to the hospital, had died. Something bad was going on.
One of the ships, it seems, had held 100 tons of mustard gas. Later, the Army claimed it'd been there as a deterrent -- a deterrent which had inexplicably been made top secret. We were lucky that most of the mustard gas burned off in the fires. The small part of it that'd been absorbed into floating oil was what did all the damage. And so this Bay of Bari incident produced the only mustard gas casualties in WW-II -- Americans killed by American gas.

also,

A Tokyo court has awarded $1.7 million to 13 Chinese citizens who claim they were sickened by Japanese mustard gas left over from World War II. Did Japan actually use chemical weapons during the conflict?
Yes, although the extent of Japan's chemical warfare has never been resolved. What's known for sure is that the Japanese Imperial Army left behind thousands of tons of chemical weapons when it left China in 1945. Japan estimates that 700,000 such shells, bombs, and supply drums remain in the country, buried throughout its provinces; China puts the figure closer to 2 million. What's less clear is exactly when and where these weapons were used. The most well-documented instance occurred in 1941 at Yichang, a city in the central province of Hubei. The Japanese reportedly used mustard gas and lewisite when seizing the city and again to repel the Chinese Nationalist troops who attempted to recapture it. Additionally, Japan's infamous Unit 731, a covert biological warfare program, tested chemical weapons on thousands of Chinese citizens.

I never knew that about the Japanese, although I love Japanese history I mainly specialise in the Sengoku period and don't really know much about WW2 Japan.

[Blitzvogel]

The gas masks could also be worn whenever the enemy used smoke to obscure their attack formations. That smoke was chemically created and therefore rather toxic in itself. If this is true (not an expert on this subject), then wouldn't this be a good enough reason to keep it around?

Bob

Gas masks are traditionally useless against smoke since smoke particles are too large and will clog the filters. Nerve agents and other inhalants are much finer and therefore necessitate a tighter filter weave.

[Strider]

Here are Churchill's views on Gas Warfare as expressed to Germany in this 1942 air-dropped propaganda leaflet:

TRANSLATION OF G.25, LUFTKRIEG UND GASKRIEG

AIR WAR AND GAS WAR A WARNING BY CHURCHILL
“Now – while the German armies will be bleeding and burning up their strength against a 2,000 mile Russian line, and when the news of casualties by hundreds of thousands is streaming back to the German Reich – now is the time to bring home to the German people the wickedness of their rulers by destroying under their very eyes the factories and seaports on which their war effort depends.
We are on Hitler’s tracks now. And so is the United States. Already the Royal Air Force has set about him. The British and presently the American bombing offensive against Germany will be one of the principal features in this year’s world war.
Now is the time to use our increasingly superior air strength to strike hard and continually at the home front in Germany.”

BELATED CONVERSION
“Hitler warns us solemnly that if we go on smashing up the German cities, his war factories and based, he will retaliate against our cathedrals and historic monuments. We have heard his threats before. In September 1940, when he thought he had an overwhelming air force at his command, he declared that he would “rub out” – that was the actual expression – our towns and cities.
Herr Hitler has even called into question the humanity of these grim developments of war. What a pity this conversion did not take place before he bombed Warsaw or massacred 20,000 Dutch folk in defenceless Rotterdam, or wreaked his cruel vengeance upon the open city of Belgrade. In those days he used to boast that for every ton of bombs we dropped on Germany he would drop ten times or even a hundred times as many on Britain. Those were his words and that was his belief.”

THE BOOT IS ON THE OTHER FOOT
“We are in a position to carry into Germany many times the tonnage of high explosives which he can send here, and this proportion will increase all the summer, all the autumn and all the winter, all the spring, all the summer, and so on.
‘The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small,’ and for my part I hail it as an example of sublime and poetic justice that those who have loosed these horrors upon mankind shall now, in their own homes and persons, feel the shattering strokes of retributive justice. We have a long list of German cities in which the vital industries of the German war machine are established. All these it will be our stern duty to deal with as we have already dealt with Lübeck, with Rostock, and half a dozen important places.”

GAS WAR
“The Soviet Government have expressed to us the view that the Germans in the desperation of their assault may make use of poison gas against the armies and people of Russia.
We are ourselves firmly resolved not to use this odious weapon unless it is used first by the Germans. However, we have not neglected to make preparations on a formidable scale. I wish now to make it plain that we shall treat the unprovoked use of poison gas against our Russian Ally exactly as if it were used against ourselves, and if we are satisfied that this new outrage has been committed by Hitler, we will use our great and growing air superiority in the West to carry gas warfare on the largest possible scale far and wide against military objectives in Germany.
It is thus for Hitler to choose whether he wishes to add this additional horror ro aerial warfare.”

More details of the leaflet with high-res scans here:
http://www.psywar.org/apddetailsdb.php?detail=1942G025
Courtesy of PsyWar.Org

[Strider]

Goebbels also claimed in 1939 that Britain had supplied Poland with poison gas which was discovered by German troops in a Polish shipyard. But as this claim came out of Goebbels propaganda ministry it can be taken with a pinch of salt.

[kompanie]

I did read/see somewhere there was one instance of gas being used in ww2 apparently againts soviet troops who were dug into some mines (poss in the Crimea area).I cant remember where or if it is true i might of even seen it on the history channel?

[kompanie]

I have found something on Wikapedia.It was the battle of Sevastopol.
Its only a rumour but i knew i heard somthing.

With the defences reestablished, Von Manstein abandoned the attack in the south and transferred his forces to the north. The Germans also moved in their largest artillery piece, the 31-and-a-half inch gun Schwerer Gustav in preparation for another attack. The Wehrmacht began a five-day artillery barrage of the city, which some claim included toxic gas, to get the Russians out of their caves and bunkers. There are few sources which support such a claim, which would have been one of the few uses of chemical weapons during the war.

Here's the full page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...281941-1942%29

[PaulW]

Pulling this old thread back up. I was reading Franz Kurowski's book "The History of Fallschirm-Panzerkorps Hermann Goering" (fantastic book btw) and found a reference to the "Bari incident", something new to me. Essentially it refers to a devastating German air raid by 105 Ju88 bombers on the Italian port of Bari in December 1943 which led to the destruction of many Allied ships, including one carrying mustard gas. In the above book, the German account quotes numerous Allied (1,000 US), and Italian civilian casualties. According to the German account it caused a tightening up of the Wehrmacht's anti-gas training, which had slackened off as the war progressed.

According to this Wikipedia page, the incident was covered up by the Allies:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_on_Bari

"In 1986 the British government finally admitted to survivors of the Bari raid that they had been exposed to poison gas and amended their pension payments accordingly"

so I suppose it hasn't exactly been advertised over the years...

Looks like like both sides were ready to use chemical agents, thankfully neither side did.

I must admit, I was always under the impression that the Luftwaffe was largely ineffective as the Italian campaign progressed, this raid indicates that they did have some successes.

Regards, Paul

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

Bombings over Europe and during the destruction of many bunkers destroyed Oxygen, so many people tought that combat gas were used.

You can also check Unit 731 books and documentaries about the Chemical War in China made by the Japanese.

http://www.dontow.com/2009/04/japans...a-during-wwii/

See You

Vince

[Remark116]

My Dad was in the 82nd ABN, 319th Glider Field Arty and he has told me numerous times they had gas shells at their disposal a lot. They were never used but were at the ready should the Germans started using it. He has mentioned phosgene (sp?) gas smelling like new mown hay but I don't know if this was in the shells he was talking about.

Greg

My old neighbor was a Chemical Weapons officer during the war. I forget which unit, but I can dig out some of his old patches. He was college educated as an engineer and put in charge of smudge pots in some part of England. He kept asking for a transfer to a fighting unit. Because of his background he was put in a chemical mortar or artillery unit. They only carried normal shells, but their supply had chemical shells not far behind their lines. I know his collar insignia was for Chemical Warfare.

We used to ride horses together every weekend out in the desert and he would share his war stories. He had great stories of the race across France, liberated women and other times. It was kind of funny that unlike most WW2 vets that I knew he rarely talked about fighting. It was always the other happenings during the war that he recalled. It really made talking to him interesting. It was sad when he passed on.

[Tim O'Keefe]

So the soldiers basically had to carry their gas mask all war long and they never got to use them. <o></o>

Most solders "lost" their gas mask very early on in the war. But the gas mask case was kept and used used for storage, food, & personel items. Have had solders from both sides of the fence tell me this many times....

So most of the time when you see photos of solders carrying the gas mask case, it does not have a gas mask inside but other personel items.

[Jean-Loup]

"Most solders "lost" their gas mask very early on in the war. But the gas mask case was kept and used used for storage, food, & personel items. Have had solders from both sides of the fence tell me this many times...."

I have yet to see a German gas mask boy being found in the woodwork or during a dig with anything else then a gas mask inside it.
The German soldiers are not usualy seen with their masks in later war pictures, but that is just because they were storred somewhere, and not worn on the soldier himself.