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**Simon O.** · 11-24-2005, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Soviet

As we all know, WWII was not a war of trenches,

Actually, in quite a few cases it very much was a war of trenches, especially in the East. In some cases the frontline was static for up to 3 years.

**TMurray** · 11-24-2005, 06:34 PM

I am not aware of any combat use of poisonous gas during WWII, although I believe the Japanese MAY have used it in China (?) It is strange that the Germans did not resort to the use of gas against the Soviets in 1945, perhaps they thought the consequences would be too great, how? I dont know.

This may be of interest

On December 2nd, 1943, German bombers attacked American tankers and munitions ships in Bari Harbor off the southeast coast of Italy. They sank sixteen ships, partially destroyed four more, and set off at least two major explosions. The fires burned while hundreds of oil-soaked men were pulled out of the water.
At first, many of the survivors seemed to be all right, though a few mentioned the odd smell of garlic. Soon they began showing symptoms -- stinging eyes, skin lesions, a variety of internal problems. Four survivors died later the first day, nine the next. By the end of a month 83 men, out of the 617 who'd made it to the hospital, had died. Something bad was going on.
One of the ships, it seems, had held 100 tons of mustard gas. Later, the Army claimed it'd been there as a deterrent -- a deterrent which had inexplicably been made top secret. We were lucky that most of the mustard gas burned off in the fires. The small part of it that'd been absorbed into floating oil was what did all the damage. And so this Bay of Bari incident produced the only mustard gas casualties in WW-II -- Americans killed by American gas.

also,

A Tokyo court has awarded $1.7 million to 13 Chinese citizens who claim they were sickened by Japanese mustard gas left over from World War II. Did Japan actually use chemical weapons during the conflict?
Yes, although the extent of Japan's chemical warfare has never been resolved. What's known for sure is that the Japanese Imperial Army left behind thousands of tons of chemical weapons when it left China in 1945. Japan estimates that 700,000 such shells, bombs, and supply drums remain in the country, buried throughout its provinces; China puts the figure closer to 2 million. What's less clear is exactly when and where these weapons were used. The most well-documented instance occurred in 1941 at Yichang, a city in the central province of Hubei. The Japanese reportedly used mustard gas and lewisite when seizing the city and again to repel the Chinese Nationalist troops who attempted to recapture it. Additionally, Japan's infamous Unit 731, a covert biological warfare program, tested chemical weapons on thousands of Chinese citizens.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 11-24-2005, 06:49 PM

There is some info here which also covers the accidental discharge of gas in Italy the US ship was bombed:

http://www.vectorsite.net/twgas2.html

Cheers, Ade.

**Soviet** · 11-25-2005, 12:04 AM

So the soldiers basically had to carry their gas mask all war long and they never got to use them.

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>

**TMurray** · 11-25-2005, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Soviet

So the soldiers basically had to carry their gas mask all war long and they never got to use them.

<O

></O

>

YUP. I believe the Germans feared the retaliation from the British if they used gas first. I read a copy of a memo written by W.Churchill regarding the use of gas and he favoured it. He threatened to 'saturate' German cities if the Germans used it first. The Brits were very concerned that it might be used against them on the Normandy beachheads.

**Simon O.** · 11-25-2005, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by Soviet

So the soldiers basically had to carry their gas mask all war long and they never got to use them.

<O

></O

>

Bit like the cold war, lots of effort put into NBC equipment and training. Don't forget that in Britain civillians too had their gas masks and carried them, or were supposed to carry them around everywhere.

**Kozlov** · 11-25-2005, 02:59 AM

Churchill also ordered the use of gas if/when the Germans landed in England.

Special Whitley and Wellington bombers were equipped with tanks and spray bars and the idea was to spray the Germans on the beach and to create a 1 mile deep mustgard gas contaminated area inland to inhibit their movement off of the beaches.

Yes, both sides restrained from using it, but I cannot understand why much like Churchill suggested he would do, the Germans didnt deploy it as a last ditch defence (just like Saddam was supposed to...)

**behblc** · 11-25-2005, 04:45 AM

Atb

Ade , thanks for the link on the bari incident. ATF have covered this in a back issue.
The presence of the Gas would have been a well kept secret - would the crew on the ship know what they had on board ? (unlikely).

Germen devlopment of Gas and the potential for use by all WW2 combatants is covered in a book called " A Higher form of Killing"
( I will have to look out my copy to give authors etc) , it mentions an Island off the Scotish Coast which is still out of bounds being contaminated with anthrax spores.

All had a serious back up plan to employ chemicals if "the other side used it first" - thank fully it never happened.

Italy - Benito M. did use Gas in his war s against native tribesmen in North Africa.

**JaimeH** · 11-25-2005, 08:30 AM

I have read where having been gassed himself in WWI, Hitler held to the post WWI international law of not using gas in warfare.

**Kozlov** · 11-25-2005, 08:39 AM

I'd have thought having lived through WW1 he wouldnt have been quite so keen on war in the first place actually, maybe thats just me

Without lighting up a somewhat different conversation, his supposed qualms re-gas can actually re refuted in a major way if you think about

**Darrell** · 11-25-2005, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Soviet

So the soldiers basically had to carry their gas mask all war long and they never got to use them.

<O

></O

>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you seldom see German Soldiers carrying Gas masks after 1941-42. The early war pictures (Poland / France) it is a common site.

I guess they felt the threat at that time was nill.

**Greg Sebring** · 11-25-2005, 12:35 PM

My Dad was in the 82nd ABN, 319th Glider Field Arty and he has told me numerous times they had gas shells at their disposal a lot. They were never used but were at the ready should the Germans started using it. He has mentioned phosgene (sp?) gas smelling like new mown hay but I don't know if this was in the shells he was talking about.

Greg

**Kozlov** · 11-25-2005, 01:01 PM

Actually I believe German soldiers were inspected daily by their officers to check they were carrying the cannister AND THE MASK (its very handy for sarnies or ciggies...). On a charge otherwise...

Plenty of photos of mid and late war of them carrying them.

British soldiers apart from on big operations with large troop concentrations (d-day, arnhem etc) didn't carry them but had them in the baggage train. Somewhere I have a copy of the relevant changing orders regarding the carrying of respirators.

Soviet troops liked to throw the mask away and keep the bag as it made a handy satchel for grenades, ammo etc.

**Kozlov** · 11-25-2005, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Kozlov

Without lighting up a somewhat different conversation, his supposed qualms re-gas can actually re refuted in a major way if you think about

Meant to say, this point was actually highlighted to me by a 10 year old from a school we were delivering a talk to about the Home Guard.

From the mouths of babes...

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Use of gas during WWII combat

Use of gas during WWII combat

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