Well, they're not German...

[Chris_Werner]

Greg:

Thank you for the wonderful stories about your Dad's experiences. He, like my Dad, who fought with the 87th division, Third Army through the Bulge and into Germany, are part of a truly great generation of Americans.
I am getting my Dad's stories down, and I've posted a few of his funnier ones, and I am glad to see that you are recording your Dad's memories.
The interchange about Russian atrocities vs. German atrocities just shows to me that we are dealing with a living and breathing thing. The uniforms and medals that we collect represent a period of history that is still seared in the memories of many european people. As such, we should treat this terrible horror of war with the respect and consideration that it deserves.
We Americans were "lucky" in that the war was not played out on our soil. Much blood was shed by our soldiers, but our civilian population was not subjected to the horrors of war as the Russians, Germans and many others. I cannot imagine millions of civilian men, women and children caught up in that firestorm. The biggest mass murder of American civilians prior to 9-11 was OK City, and the two incidents all totalling less than 5000 innocent people murdered by some very evil sons of b.....s. How many died in London during the Blitz?
I have enormous respect for the Russian people, and the Russian soldiers that fought that war with incredible skill and bravery.
That being said, I feel the same way about the German people.
We can't forget that both people were the victims of their governments and their foreign policies. As citizens, they made their sacrifices and did their duty as they had no choice, and both showed what they are made of, and the sacrifices that they are capable of making. Whether you hate or admire Hitler or Stalin, the respective citizens of their countries gave much more than either of these leaders ever deserved or had a right to expect from their people.
Chris Werner

[Greg Sebring]

Nicely put Chris,...total agreement here. The passion one has for his/her country today is as strong today as it was at any time in history. I will admit now my Dad's story of his Russian experience in Berlin should not have been posted. I never considered the sensitivity and feelings of the Forum members across the ocean. For that I do appologize. I will "edit" my future stories to keep peace among us.

..good to hear from you again,

Greg

[Chris_Werner]

Boy Greg, that's a tough one. I for one was very interested in your Dad's stories about the falling out we had with our allies after the war. It shows the beginning of the cold war, and we all know how close we came to nuclear destruction.
I am glad you told it like it was back then. It certainly doesn't change the respect I have for the Russians and their military, and your Dad's story doesn't take away one iota the sacrifices and the bravery displayed by the Russians in WWII. My Dad has told me some unpleasant stories about shooting German POWs during the Battle of the Bulge, but I would rather hear the whole story than a white-washed version of it. We can all learn from your Dad's experiences, as we are all historians and preservers of history. I'd say: "Tell it like it was, for better or worse!"
Chris Werner

[James Noble]

Greg, Please don't edit or white wash your dad's wartime memoires that's one of the biggest problems we have with getting the truth told about what really happened in the history of the world we live in. All the history class's and books used to teach those class's were written by the winning side, all the allies were hero's and the axis powers were cowards and fiends. It's just in the twenty or so years that the truth is finally being told as to what it was really like on all sides. So please don't cave in and pull the shade on your fathers window to the past after all it's better to show the world that no one nation or group of nations ware all white hats we all are guilty of our share of wrong doing in this war as well as in all others fought before and sense.

[Greg Sebring]

Chris/James,

Thanks for the support. I just don't want to report something and start a big p*ssing match. I can add these stories from Dad that put the Americans in a very poor light...

Dad has told me there were times when the American forces would have German soldiers surrender to them. Due to the circumstances at the time, they would be marched over a hill somewhere and machine gunned. Dad said the reasoning behind it was being an Airborne unit, quite often they would be called upon to make rapid advances to help another allied unit from being cut off or overrun. It would be during these intense moments when there was not sufficient personnel to guard, maintain, and process prisoners-of-war that the executions would take place. Dad said better to shoot the German soldiers than have another American unit overrun or sustain high casualities because their relief was processing prisoners somewhere. Dad also added that there never were SS prisoners as they were summarily shot...it was sort of an Airborne code everyone followed. The incident at Malmedy didn't help things either.

Another occasion was racial in nature. It was an incident in Nancy, France. I can't remember what Dad said the cause was but it escalated to the point where white Airborne soldiers were chasing down and shooting black American soldiers right on the downtown streets. Dad said both units were separated and immediately transferred in opposite directions. He can't remember too much coming from it as it was quickly swept under the rug.

Earlier in the war while still in England there was another racial incident that involved an all black transportation/quartermaster unit. It seems the Airborne units were having a hard time finding enough jump boots and happened to notice the black outfit wearing them. Dad said this was a big no-no during the war. You had to be in the Airborne to wear jump boots. This incident occurred in Leicester. A white Colonel was demoted/transfered after granting a whole company furlough to go into town to settle the matter.

I guess it's safe to say attrocities were committed by all sides.

Greg

[Chris_Werner]

Those stories sound like some of the ones my Dad told me. During the Bulge, there was no time to take prisoners, as the troops were moving so rapidly, and the front lines were so fluid. The "code" to get rid of prisoners was: "March these men back to the rear, and be back in 5 minutes." Everyone knew what that meant. Heer troops were actually taken prisoner if there was the time and the manpower, and they didn't play games or act too arrogantly towards their captors.
SS troops and german paratroopers were summarily executed until very late in the war when everyone was surrendering.
Sad, but we can't judge these men unless we were there and experienced what they did. I guess it's very easy to become callous in combat, especially after seeing what these men saw. In my Dad's very first engagement, his unit was shelled by tanks from the Panzer Lehr Division. My Dad's best friend from basic was hit with shrapnel, and died in my Dad's arms. They were pinned down in a shell hole and the medic couldn't get to him in time to save him. My Dad says he will remember that as long as he lives.

[Greg Sebring]

I've often thought to myself if I can only be half the man my father was I will consider life a great success. That's part of the reason I fly "Old Glory" everyday to honor Dad and those that have been and are still in the military.

[Chris_Werner]

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!
And I am teaching my two young sons those same values. I guess that's why my 8 y.o. wants to either go career military or law enforcement.
I want him to be a Firefighter-Paramedic like his ol' Dad!
My 3 y.o. likes fire trucks. Maybe there is some hope for him?

[Greg Sebring]

another recalled memory...

Dad has told me about the glider rides into Normandy and Holland. First of all, there was very little room to move around with all the gear you had to carry and the cargo aboard. But move you had to. The constant vibrations and giggling caused by the flight would tend to loosen the ropes securing the jeep or howitzer, whatever was aboard your glider. Someone had to constantly check the tensions of all the lines and adjust or re-tie them. You could not afford to have slop in them or risk being crushed on landing. Another point Dad told me was the rear of the glider was the worst place to sit as the soldiers would go back there to empty their bladders. Dad said one time he broke the silence aboard while inbound announcing that he always wanted to p*ss on the Germans and now was a good time to do it. With that he was able to get to the door and relieve himself.

At the Holland landing I mentioned earlier, Dad said the landing impact was hard enough to jam the front end so the loading hinge would not work. They had to use the axes from the jeeps and chop through the side to get their piece out. Dad said the axes didn't work very good on the aluminum frame but that was all they had and eventually cleared the damaged glider.

[derspiess63]

Michael, I understood that it is senselessly to tell anything, when I heared about Suvorov's books And Greg's father could tell also about Americans, who also raped German women- I think it will be not so funny for you.

My late aunt Christina was a young Polish girl from Lodz who witnessed the annihilation of the local Jewish Ghetto perpretated by the Germans.In a 5-years time she witnessed deeds that both Germans and Russians did, but I've seen her trembling and bursting into tears only when somebody pronounced the words"Red Army"...and if a lady who has witnessed the horrors of Lodz,one of Western Europe's most martyrized cities during the Shoah doesn't mind about the Germans and cries ONLY when someone says"Red Army"well...THAT SHOULD SPEAK VOLUMES ABOUT RUSSIAN SOLDIERS!
Greg,I'd go on reading your dad's stories for ages and let me tell you buddy,next time you'll pay your Old Man a visit or next time he'll come and see you break out the tape recorder!
After the September 1943 Armistice my late father and my late uncles(one of them got married to aunt Christina in Canada after the war)joined the Allied Forces;my father and one of his brothers joined the U.S.A.A.F. while the third stole a car,drove south and after a short yet intense odyssey joined the Royal Canadian Dragoons just in time to "enjoy" the Italian Campaign in its most ectic stage....by the way,it had a hard time trying to convince a crowd of fierce-looking Canucks that he wasn't some sort of spy!To cut it short I regret I haven't asked them about what they had been thru and take it from me, they had many stories to tell,humorous and tragic alike.I always said to myself"I'll ask them tomorrow,now I'm busy!",well,tomorrow never came and now it's late!I only remember small episodes like the one who saw my dad "facing" U.S. rations for the first time or my uncle temporarily losing his sight when the armoured car he was riding in struck a mine and the driver was killed when bailing out of it landed straight onto another mine;a few yards earlier my uncle saw a big dog or a sheep cut in two and he suspected that there could have been anti-personnel mines buried;he warned the others but the young driver hadn't paid much attention...when the AC struck the first mine he panicked into being the first one to bail out of the vehicle and that sealed his fate!
These men are pieces of living history and we owe them respect,care and attention.Let's listen to them,if they're not that keen let's talk them into telling us their stories and let's record or write them down!Your dad is in his eighties and kicking as he can be but it won't be like that forever;you(we!)owe him(and the others!)that...they gave the best years of the youth,offering them to that monster called war,so let's do all we can not to forget what they've done!
Best
Manuel

[Greg Sebring]

Greetings Manuel,

Dad turns 80 this coming July. I am fortunate both my parents are in good health for their age. Dad lives and breathes everything 82nd Airborne, 319th Glider F/A, and Red, White, and Blue. My brother, sister, and the rest of their families are all going to Washington D.C. this coming May for the dedication of the National WWII Memorial. We are making it a whole family affair. I have already purchased a small casette recorder and told Dad what I'd like to do. He has no problems with it. In fact, he enjoys relating to others his experiences. He has been interviewed and on his local TV station for past Veterans Day coverage. His local newspaper has had him on the front page a couple of times. He never looks for attention, it just finds him. As history marches on, there seems to be an attraction to those that personally experienced WWII. Even to this day, Dad will utter some tidbit about something I had forgotten about or never heard before.
I'm not going to open that "Pandora's Box" again concerning the Russians or Germans. Present day ego's and national pride get bruised too easily. I've got my opinions and I'll not expose 'em here. Get me in a bar or pub and buy me a couple of brews, and you'll know exactly how I feel about any particular group.
I thank you for your kind words. I love to hear any stories or fragments thereof of relatives who served. I invite any member to use this thread to relate the heroics of their loved ones.

Greg

[derspiess63]

Greetings Manuel,

Dad turns 80 this coming July. I am fortunate both my parents are in good health for their age. Dad lives and breathes everything 82nd Airborne, 319th Glider F/A, and Red, White, and Blue. My brother, sister, and the rest of their families are all going to Washington D.C. this coming May for the dedication of the National WWII Memorial. We are making it a whole family affair. I have already purchased a small casette recorder and told Dad what I'd like to do. He has no problems with it. In fact, he enjoys relating to others his experiences. He has been interviewed and on his local TV station for past Veterans Day coverage. His local newspaper has had him on the front page a couple of times. He never looks for attention, it just finds him. As history marches on, there seems to be an attraction to those that personally experienced WWII. Even to this day, Dad will utter some tidbit about something I had forgotten about or never heard before.
I'm not going to open that "Pandora's Box" again concerning the Russians or Germans. Present day ego's and national pride get bruised too easily. I've got my opinions and I'll not expose 'em here. Get me in a bar or pub and buy me a couple of brews, and you'll know exactly how I feel about any particular group.
I thank you for your kind words. I love to hear any stories or fragments thereof of relatives who served. I invite any member to use this thread to relate the heroics of their loved ones.

Greg

Hi Greg,
I understand your point about the "Pandora's Box"and I fully second it..."present day's ego and national pride get bruised too easily";wise words indeed my friend!Please shake your old man's hand on my behalf and tell him that I'd be proud to do that myself!
With my warmest regards to you and your wonderful family
Manuel

[Greg Sebring]

Recent correspondence from Dad

Recently I asked Dad through an e-mail what were some of the towns/cities he remembers passing through during the Battle of the Bulge. Today I received a letter listing 45 locations Dad said he at. Dad prefaced the letter by writing,"Where we were at in the Bulge. These were high ground or small mountains that we had to take." He starts the list with "Liege - north our lines stretched more than 25000 yards or 14 miles".

I won't list them all but the ones that I recognize are "Werbomont, Trois-Ponts, St. Vith, Hurtgen to Roer River, and Malmedy.

Dad goes on to write,"In two years of fighting the 82nd took over 200,000 prisoners. We were understrength when we went into the Bulge as we just came out of Holland. We met the 1st, 2nd, and 9th SS Panzer Division who gave us a good fight also the 21st SS Panzer Division." Dad added later that when ever they ran across a regular German army unit it was mostly older men and young boys. Dad said it was a slaughter to use his words and the German dead far outnumbered theirs.

He continues, " We had 670 killed in the Bulge. 101 missing in action and 2073 wounded". "We had 46 days of combat in the Bulge. 17 days at reserve total 63 days." "Total days of combat 1943 - 141, 1944 - 173, 1945 - 108."

Dad ended his letter by writing," When we went into the Bulge our orders were to go to Bastogne. We got there and were called back. They said go till you meet the Germans as the 101st is in back of you, Bastogne will be for them to hold." (Boy, they sure did!)

It's obvious Dad enlisted help from some of the many reference books he has to list this many places. I have in the the past sat down with him looking at a European map where Dad has taken a pencil and pointed out many of the places he fought at so his memory is still pretty sharp.

I hope to find a detailed map of the Bulge and trace the route he has given me. I'm looking forward to further in depth interviews with Dad and will post anything that is interesting.

Greg

[Greg Sebring]

Thought I'd kick a sleeping dog and add a couple more stories dad told me on my last visit. I was able to record quite a few stories this past week and heard some new ones.

These both happened post war while dad was on occupation duty in Berlin. One night some of dad's buddies ask him to wear an MP's armband and bust up a known whorehouse with their help. The whores had been busy all day long with soldiers standing in lines at times. Dad and his friend waited till dark and the girls were given a couple seconds notice that the MP's had just arrived and they would all be arrested. They were told run or be arrested. Dad entered wearing the MP armband and the whores all went running out the back door. In their haste, the whores didn't have time to grab their days earnings and Dad and his buddies left the place with quite a bit more $$$ than they came with which was exactly the plan.

The second story dad told me was he was able to get a truck signed out to him from the motor pool. He then drove the truck over to the Russian sector and sold it to some Russian soldiers. (Dad added they were almost always drunk) Dad then made his way back to the American sector and reported the truck stolen. The next day , a detail of soldiers (Dad didn't go with them) went over to the Russian sector and seized the truck bringing it back where it beonged. Dad said the Russian soldiers in Berlin were allowed to keep and carry their weapons unlike the other allies. Dad carried the P.38 he captured earlier as he said it was not real safe to be out unarmed.

Mom and Dad are both doing well and living in SW Virginia. He will be 84 this coming July and Mom turns 82 in March.

Greg

[boyouLaGleize.]

Dad has mentioned to me several times when he was in Belgium. He and several of his buddies stayed at a farm and became good friends with the family living there. The family had a small dairy and Dad was very impressed with how they ran it. The barn had a milking parlour attached to it. From the milking parlour you could go right into the house. So, it was possible to do the milking and never have to go outside. Dad said the milking parlour had a red tile floor and it was scrubbed down very thourghly with EACH milking. Dad added you could eat off the floor and there was no cow smell whatsoever. One day, Dad was able to get some popcorn. The Belgium family had never seen popcorn before and were curious when Dad ask the farmers wife for a large pan. Dad popped this huge pan of popcorn using a big scoop of fresh creamery butter. After some salt, all the G.I.'s and the Belgium family feasted on the corn. Dad said the family really thought that was something very special. The man of the house took the time to write a full page letter in his native language and mailed it to Dad's girlfriend (later to be my mother) back in the states. She got it translated and Dad still has the letter in one of his scrapbooks. Dad has often wondered if he wrote to the address today, if anyone there now would know anything about the family. From that point on, the Belgium family sort of adopted Dad and his buddies and made sure they were made as comfortable as possible while in that area.

Hello Greg,
I'm actually living in Trois-Ponts,do you have more information about this farm and it location.
Is it in Trois-Ponts area.
Please ask your father if he remember some others name of town,like Mont de Fosse,Basse-Bodeux,Wanne,Grand-Halleux.

Great story