KZ hellbraun (light brown) vs. Recon kupferbraun (copper brown) waffenfarbe

[militaria.no]

Hello guys

Hereby I’ll try to clarify the question regarding kz Hellbraun (light brown) waffenfarbe vs. recon kupferbraun (copper brown) waffenfarbe. I have researched the topic here on the forum and now put some of your words, findings and photos together with daylight photos of kz shoulder straps from my own collection.

WAF member Dennis S once wrote: “SS dropped kupferbraun or copper brown for Recon in 1942. IMO I would say any brown piped boards made or used after 1942 were most likely for KZ since I cannot find any references to other browns used by the SS after that date”.

There are many posts regarding brownish waffenfarbe here on WAF and it is difficult to find 100% sure answers. To quote John Pic (regarding differences in colour): “You have a dilemma similar to that of the Heer Mountain troops. Once in awhile you find the shade of green was different than prescribed. Most likely to an Ss trooper or tailor brown was brown light or dark didnt matter”, and Robert H: “Not to forget discoloration from storage, sun light, smoke and whats so ever”.

Hellbraun (light brown) colour from the 1937 Waffenfarben der Waffen-SS piping chart:

[militaria.no]

First I enclose a photo of an unquestionable genuine kz hellbraun (light brown) visor piping. I have borrowed photos of the kz visor that once belonged to BenVK. BenVK wrote: “I'd describe the piping as being "milky coffee" in colour”.

[militaria.no]

In 2009 I bought a pair of private kz piped shoulder straps on stand, from WAF member R.J. I asked R.J. where he had got the straps from and he told me he had bought them from besslein. I dropped besslein a pm and he told me: “no big story ,i have get it with some totenkopf soldier photos in Hamburg near 10 years ago,i think i still have one photo from him”.

This is interesting! The shoulder straps came from a totenkopf soldier. These straps are most likely kz straps and not for Recon. Later I will try to show the colour in some daylight photos. The difference in colours seems to confuse us. Member BenVK has a good point when he writes: “Problem is, you can never get a camera to capture this colour consistently. A bit more or less sunlight in the room gives a totally different impression”.

A few weeks ago I bought another pair of kz shoulder straps (nco) on e-stand, from member ROBB.

[militaria.no]

My project is now, in the best possible way, to compare these nco straps with the straps from the totenkopf soldier. How does the Hellbraun (light brown) waffenfarbe look beside a Kriegsverdienst medal (the medal colour we all know)? I have found a medal with the finish that looks quite average.

[militaria.no]

nco vs. private

[militaria.no]

I have also compared the colours to a white Infantry shoulder strap.

#1

[militaria.no]

I have also compared the colours to a white Infantry shoulder strap.

#2

[militaria.no]

This KZ Hauptscharführer strap belongs to member fldjr

[militaria.no]

As one can see there is a difference between the two brown colours. The nco straps look “milky coffe” like BenVK`s visor, while the totenkopf straps have a much darker colour.

Either the same types of straps were produced in slightly different colours or the difference can be explained by the influence of years with different weather conditions, like rain and sun or discoloration from storage.

[Kale Michael]

Thanks for putting this together and sharing this information. The light brown color from the war time ss piping chart does match nicely with the nco boards you have shown

Thanks again, Kale

[militaria.no]

And this is one more photo of the kz visor that once belonged to BenVK. Here the piping looks similar to the colour on the private straps from the totenkopf soldier. When you compare your straps and boards to this remember: “Problem is, you can never get a camera to capture this colour consistently. A bit more or less sunlight in the room gives a totally different impression”.

But here I have tried to catch some of the essence of the Hellbraun waffenfarbe

[Naval Enigma]

With a professional camera you can set the white balance using a white card. It's not hard to get a "calibrated" image. Shouldn't be hard to figure out the exact pantone number of each strap and that hat. Not from the existing images, but as a simple project with the right gear. You're doing a great job however!

Any pro shooters out there want to tackle this?

[John Pen.]

Excellent presentation. Thanks.
Love that visor as well.
Jp

[wewelsburg]

This subject has intrigued me for a very long time,thanks for presenting.The Recon straps always have a orangeish red hue to them "copper"that teh hellbraun does not.
Here below is hat piping in post 2 next to the totenkopf KZ piping pic in post 4 I believe these two examples match up PERFECT

[Silesien]

All of this screwing around is really interesting,,,- but all you really need to know is that when the original German color charts say "lite brown" that is exactly what they mean,, plain & simple,,, the KL color is LIGHT BROWN, which had very little or nothing to do with the olde RECON color,- with is definitely different- hey it's this simple,,,- the recon color IS THE SAME AS THE LUFTWAFFE SIGNALS COLOR !!