M24 Grenade -frag Sleeves

[airbiscuit]

Sigh. Ya'll have me looking funny at my frag sleeve,,,,,and I don't mean haha funny

Not really this is the debate going on at the moment.

[milsurp]

Why not post some pics and add to the debate?

[Willi Z.]

What debate?

Good luck in finding a sleeve that you think is original. I really wish you the best of luck.

[milsurp]

Willi, I can't help but feel we have gotten off on the wrong foot. I was hoping we could discuss this.

What debate?


Good luck in finding a sleeve that you think is original. I really wish you the best of luck.

[BrunoH]

Hi,

Just to add an other input on that nice topic...







Hope it can help ..

Chears.

[francis006]

For new infos , I re opened this old thread as I just kept two minty green painted sleeves , both found many years ago in a hand grenade case still on the grenades
I can't post pics but they are ink marked ,for the frag one Do 4 / 1944 and the smooth one Do 5 / 1943 . No stamped maker mark found
Did someone see others ?

[BrunoH]

Hi Francis,
Get in contact with me if you want me to help you to post your pictures.
Regards

[djpool]

Hey guys,

Interesting thread. I have one sleeve which quite frankely I don't have a clue is original or not. It doesn't look like the "textbook" examples, but as far as I can tell isn't one of the known fakes. The sleev was a gift so its not really a big deal if its a reproduction. It still displays nicely. There aren't any dates or manufacturers marks as far as I can tell and I've checked every square as well as the retaining ring. Here are a few pics. WR Jim

[djpool]

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[djpool]

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[djpool]

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[djpool]

last

[Larry Davis]

Has anyone ever entertained the notion that these were cast in brittle grey/gray iron like the British pineapple grenades?

And not forged or machined from pipe.

The same cast iron that cheap waste pipes were made from.

Try hitting one (a pipe) with a hammer, it breaks easily and in many, many small sharp pieces. That is why we cast our hand grenades in this material.
Easy to pour (like water), very easily machined and will (if the mould is done right) pick up fine details.
And did I mention it is very cheap as well, or was before the Chinese stared buying all the iron.

"Gray iron, or grey iron, is an cast iron alloy that has a graphitic microstructure. Its named after the gray color of the fracture it forms, which is due to the presence of graphite.<SUP id=cite_ref-smith431_0-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> It is the most common cast iron and the most widely used cast material base on weight.<SUP id=cite_ref-schweitzer72_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP>
It is used for housings where tensile strength is non-critical, such as internal combustion engine cylinder blocks, pump housings, valve bodies, electrical boxes, and decorative castings. Grey cast iron's high thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity are often exploited to make cast iron cookware and disc brake rotors."

"Gray iron is a common engineering alloy because of its relatively low cost and good machinability, which results from the graphite lubricating the cut and breaking up the chips. It also has good galling and wear resistance because the the graphite flakes self lubricate. The graphite also gives gray iron an excellent damping capacity because it absorbs the energy. It also experiences less solidification shrinkage than other cast irons that do not form a graphite microstructure. The silicon promotes good corrosion resistance and increase fluidity when casting.<SUP id=cite_ref-degarmo77_3-3 class=reference>[4]</SUP> Gray iron is generally considered easy to weld.<SUP id=cite_ref-miller_6-0 class=reference>[7]</SUP>
Compared to the more modern iron alloys, gray iron has a low tensile strength and ductility; therefore, its impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent."

"Impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent."

Most of what I have seen so far has a distinct sand cast surface texture.
Old sand, more texture, new sand, fine texture.
Rushed sloppily rammed mould, bad detail and coarse surface texture.

These are not "art" these are disposable items.

Oh, did I mention that grey/gray ductile iron castings impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent?

Just a thought.

[Larry Davis]

"The graphite also gives gray iron an excellent damping capacity because it absorbs the energy."

In the case of a gray iron grenade, I think that this is might be similar to Hydrostatic shock, like shooting a can of water with a rifle, the energy transfer is absorbed or temporary captivated by the fluid and then released outwards........big boom!

I would suppose that an object can only absorb just so much kinetic energy, then it has to release it in some fashion.

Oh, did I mention that grey/gray ductile iron castings impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent?

The stuff shatters, very brittle.

[M44 Breadbag]

Has anyone ever entertained the notion that these were cast in brittle grey/gray iron like the British pineapple grenades?

And not forged or machined from pipe.

The same cast iron that cheap waste pipes were made from.

Try hitting one (a pipe) with a hammer, it breaks easily and in many, many small sharp pieces. That is why we cast our hand grenades in this material.
Easy to pour (like water), very easily machined and will (if the mould is done right) pick up fine details.
And did I mention it is very cheap as well, or was before the Chinese stared buying all the iron.

"Gray iron, or grey iron, is an cast iron alloy that has a graphitic microstructure. Its named after the gray color of the fracture it forms, which is due to the presence of graphite.<SUP id=cite_ref-smith431_0-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> It is the most common cast iron and the most widely used cast material base on weight.<SUP id=cite_ref-schweitzer72_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP>
It is used for housings where tensile strength is non-critical, such as internal combustion engine cylinder blocks, pump housings, valve bodies, electrical boxes, and decorative castings. Grey cast iron's high thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity are often exploited to make cast iron cookware and disc brake rotors."

"Gray iron is a common engineering alloy because of its relatively low cost and good machinability, which results from the graphite lubricating the cut and breaking up the chips. It also has good galling and wear resistance because the the graphite flakes self lubricate. The graphite also gives gray iron an excellent damping capacity because it absorbs the energy. It also experiences less solidification shrinkage than other cast irons that do not form a graphite microstructure. The silicon promotes good corrosion resistance and increase fluidity when casting.<SUP id=cite_ref-degarmo77_3-3 class=reference>[4]</SUP> Gray iron is generally considered easy to weld.<SUP id=cite_ref-miller_6-0 class=reference>[7]</SUP>
Compared to the more modern iron alloys, gray iron has a low tensile strength and ductility; therefore, its impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent."

"Impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent."

Most of what I have seen so far has a distinct sand cast surface texture.
Old sand, more texture, new sand, fine texture.
Rushed sloppily rammed mould, bad detail and coarse surface texture.

These are not "art" these are disposable items.

Oh, did I mention that grey/gray ductile iron castings impact and shock resistance is almost non-existent?

Just a thought.

Larry
That’s a lot of science, but thank you very much, I think you have explained it very well. I have one of the spurious OXO sleeves (not painted) I got it a long time ago at a small show in Germany. My OXO looks exactly like the one Jim has posted with the larger “squares” on the top row, I think, as I don’t have it in front even has a “waa” stamp. Additionally as the one Jim has posted has very faint circles in the metal on the outside and inside. When I gently go with my fingernail on them I can just barely feel them. It is as you state cast iron or hardened that is designed to shatter as you described. A good friend of mine and collector colleague explained it to me as such. Hold the sleeve careful by the hook, tap it with a metal object if it rings its cast and or hardened and not forged. I have a tan painted smooth sleeve that rings as well, again cast or at least hardened to shatter. The smooth sleeve is maker marked and has the waa as well. I believe both of these to be 100% correct.
BB