what im trying to say is the machined prosess wont make it brittle so, i dont know for sure as i have never tried it but it will be to strong and the grenade will just blast out of the top and just crack the sleve or it will brake into big lumps not small shrapnel like the forged process will cause it to do.
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This is starting to get interesting! I would say that the smooth one with text defies all logic, and therefore is a fake!!Originally posted by helmhunter
I have 5 M24's, all of them 1943 made. None of them has the written text! I have always wanted one with the "Sprengkapseln einsetzen" text, but this can only be found on the early ones, never on 1943 made ones and forward!
The fragmentation sleeves are, as far as my knowledge, late war inventions. Then why should the text suddenly reappear on a late war invention when it was discontinued on the grenade it was supposed to cover!
In addition, the finnish is identical to a lot of German made copies. The "bubbling" paint resembles the finnish on items recovered from water, but has been artificially aged that way. Sorry, but this ones defies logic
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Gentlemen, I have several of these serrated frag sleeves and they are all dated "brb 44" (for years I thought they were "bnb 44"). In nearly every case the 44 is faint.
Anyway, these are one of my favorite TR items and I have seen many fakes. From what I understand the ones stamped OXO 44 were made in eastern Europe by existing armaments factories a few years after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The tooling and machinery were already in place, demand in eastern bloc countries had collapsed after 1989, and before we knew it fake sleeves were being pumped out for the west.
But Adam's comparison is right on, the tooling on the real ones is much cruder, and the "squares" are not uniform. The OXO 44's are more uniform and more cleanly tooled.
JohnComment
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OK I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I don't think the example above exhibits classic patina or looks 60 years old, I believe it looks much newer than this. But anyway...
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I want to find a genuine serrated frag sleeve that does not look like the classic forged brb 44, I think they exist. If I found one it would be quite interesting don't you think?Comment
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I don't think that is necessarily the case when you consider the thickness of US pineapple grenades and they aren't forged.
Originally posted by reidmullerComment
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I just wanted to say that this thread was very informative. good job on everybody's viewpoints and insightfulness. I have made up my own mind and now know what I feel I need to look for when one of these come around. they are tricky. good job on this discussion Guys. I really enjoyed and learned from this one.
Glenn
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by the way.. I also got burned on the ol' "OXO 44" sergated frag sleeve.
after learning of it awhile ago I definatly noticed how thick they are made and it just doesnt seem as though it would shatter even from a grenade. Glenn
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Gentlemen, thanks for the excellent insight on the frag sleeve. I was cheking "Uniforms & Tradition G. A. 1933-45" vol 3, pag 250 by Angolia & Schlicht and the squares on this frag look like "in between sample"
from the two frag we are discussing here. I am new here and just trying to be helpfull in some way. WE NEED MORE SAMPLES.
You really are doing an outstanding job here.....
Im in the process to complete my membership so I have to wait in order to show my two frag, one is a m-24 OXO44 and the second a m-43 with no marking as far I can tell.
keep up the good work!!!
RodolfoComment
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Rodolfo, that photo is not very clear, but that sleeve appears to be just like the originals that most here agree to. That sleeve belonged to George Petersen, and when that book was published in 1987 this discussion would not have been taking place. The fakes had not appeared on the market at that point. Originals were very rare then, as they are now. Some here, such as JohnB, were collecting these before the fakes were around. We all remember when the fakes first appeared on the market. Like with many fakes, when they first appeared there was some confusion. That got sorted out in time. 10 years ago. That is why some are sticking to their guns. We hate to see these topics being presented as "new".
All this new "analysis" does not replace experience.Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere audeComment
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Hi Everybody.Interesting discussion about these sleeves.Here a mine: The smooth one is totally unmarked while the other two are marked brb 44 and have the dot ink markings. Hope you like them.Comment
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4. Of course i meant " DO " inkstamp. Not DotComment
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Will.....Thanks.....information is always welcome
RodolfoComment
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Raoul, I knew I could count on you to have some choice ones! And, to help us out here.
Find me a tan one!!!!
Would take a green one like yours too!
Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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