Who's brave enough to bid on this t#rd?

[derspiess63]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...508320903&rd=1

1)The presstoff "weave" is...ahem...typical
2)The Waffenamt stamp is..well...guess if you can
3)Codes starting by "gs" were nearly entirely assigned to makers
producing weapons,weapons components,engines,heavy-duty
machinery and stuff...further....look at the way the code and Waa
are stamped on the pressturd!
4)Various
Manny

[kmh]

Manny

You know my interest is in leather etc. so I just looked up who gsa could be;and J.B. Van Heyst en Zonen Den Hagg in Holland turns up.
I also looked up who used WaA 513 and two leather works are mentioned; gaq and ojx. btw another well known leather worker Gebr. Krüger in Breslau have tree letter code grz along with 41 other leather "makers". So!!
My opinion could turn two way's here if faked!! Why has the guy not copied some of the well known codes? This tree letter code and WaA are very close to the reality thus not "discovered" yet?? But do someone have the knowledge digging up what the Dutch company in mention do for a living in those days. Anyway the (my) investigation could indicates that close to be a correct item??

Thoughts!!

Kim

[derspiess63]

Manny

You know my interest is in leather etc. so I just looked up who gsa could be;and J.B. Van Heyst en Zonen Den Hagg in Holland turns up.
I also looked up who used WaA 513 and two leather works are mentioned; gaq and ojx. btw another well known leather worker Gebr. Krüger in Breslau have tree letter code grz.
My opinion could turn two way's here if faked!! Why has the guy not copied some of the well known codes? This tree letter code and WaA are very close to the reality thus not "discovered" yet?? But do someone have the knowledge digging up what the Dutch company in mention do for a living in those days. Anyway the (my) investigation could indicates that close to be a correct item??

Thoughts!!

Kim

Kim,
'grz' doesn't start by 'gs',and apart of " 'G'sa " which I couldn't find(my bad !)...all the other codes starting by 'gs' nothing had to do with leatherware and that made me go"mmmmhhh"in the first place...but it definitely wasn't the only thing!I didn't mean that the Waa is unknown, rather that it looked a bit "strange" at firstLook at the way the two of them have been impressed and to a few other details(last but not least the presstoff "weave") and you'll see that the carrier will start looking a tad iffy...in my opinion at least!Further...you'll surely know that sometimes codes are misinterpreted even in books(eaa could be caa for example!) and short oh having a genuine piece so marked in your own collection are you101% sure that the code in right in your references!
Forget the codes and Waa for a minute and take a GOOD,CLOSER,look at the item itself..... I agree that looks like a 100% genuine piece,still there are one or two things that put me off and no....one of them is not the fact that the folding spade(more common than yellow presstoff carriers)has reached a $300 price tag while this one only 50 or so Bucks !After a second, careful look I must admit that I'm less definite upon labeling it a true-blue turd,but there's always a couple of details that still make me go "Mmmmmmhhhhhhh" and since I know you know your stuff I'm sure you've already noticed them yourself !!!
Manny

[kmh]

Manny

Well my first move here was to establish a "proof" for the possiblity of such a piece. And in my opinion this could happen to be correct during the investigating this way; becourse a awful lot of leather makers start with "g" neamly 41 according what I have found in Pawlas. I have noticed the gs are heavy industri.
Next thing is to study the equipment in details right; I actually have a tan piece in my own collection marked 1944 jqh (Walther Krause Bromberg) WaA D42 a little different texture in the presstof and so. But still with brown straps etc. Just for the debate my spade and holster have a 112% bomb proof history I got the rig from that person who pick it up in 1945 here i Denmark and his age++ match!!! the spade.
The spade itself are not matching the holster I think something prewar or maybe not German or abused somehow but the holster looks pretty original to me.
Finally the spade and the holster have probably not been together for that long so the chance for uncorrectness not for saying "fake" is there. But that is hard to tell.

Kim

[derspiess63]

Manny

Well my first move here was to establish a "proof" for the possiblity of such a piece. And in my opinion this could happen to be correct during the investigating this way; becourse a awful lot of leather makers start with "g" neamly 41 according what I have found in Pawlas. I have noticed the gs are heavy industri.
Next thing is to study the equipment in details right; I actually have a tan piece in my own collection marked 1944 jqh (Walther Krause Bromberg) WaA D42 a little different texture in the presstof and so. But still with brown straps etc. Just for the debate my spade and holster have a 112% bomb proof history I got the rig from that person who pick it up in 1945 here i Denmark and his age++ match!!! the spade.
The spade itself are not matching the holster I think something prewar or maybe not German or abused somehow but the holster looks pretty original to me.
Finally the spade and the holster have probably not been together for that long so the chance for uncorrectness not for saying "fake" is there. But that is hard to tell.

Kim

The brown straps have nothing to do with what I was trying to point out, but I'm sure you're on the right track.....take a closer look at the carrier....if you cannot find the details I'm talking about PM and I'll discuss them with you privately.....I guess it's very interesting to debate on such pieces without letting "dangerous details" go!
I know that an awful lot of leatherware firms have their codes starting by "g" but you know that "gs*" are nearly entirely related to heavy industries!
Meet you at PM's place !
Manny

[MP44_tom]

Hey guys,

I have the same sort of carrier, and to my knowledge the WaA 513 is

Deutsche Kunstlederwerke Wolfgang GmbH,
Wolfgang bei Hanau/Main, Hessen
The Gsa in my opinion has nothing to do with the three letter coding, because all of the 3 letter codings I have encountered are not capitalized.....

Furthermore I have allways considered mine an original, but then again, who knows.....

Tom
www.mp44.nl

[derspiess63]

Hey guys,

I have the same sort of carrier, and to my knowledge the WaA 513 is

Deutsche Kunstlederwerke Wolfgang GmbH,
Wolfgang bei Hanau/Main, Hessen
The Gsa in my opinion has nothing to do with the three letter coding, because all of the 3 letter codings I have encountered are not capitalized.....

Furthermore I have allways considered mine an original, but then again, who knows.....

Tom
www.mp44.nl

Join me and Kim on the PM area Tom....we're as puzzled as you are...sent you a PM anyway!
Manny

[airborne_steve]

Hi guys,

I hope this is not a private conversation? IMHO on this issue is that the capital "G" is not right. Have never seen a makers code that started with a capital letter. This strange code alone would prevent me from bidding.

Steve

[Glenn Barbaritz]

I'm a lover of the year '43 but real or not I think this one would be a debate that would never end. I dont care for the looks of the WaA or the capital ""G" as steve said. (thats too strange even by itself) plus the color itself looks weird. not real. if a piece has the collecting community split in half than I would rather not own it at all, even if it is the real deal. just my opinion and I certainly wont be bidding or even watching. Glenn

[ILYUSHIN]

Another Ebay Spade

Hello Everyone,

I noticed another spade offered on Ebay, and was hoping for your opinions, prior to committing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Thanks,
Pat

[derspiess63]

Hello Everyone,

I noticed another spade offered on Ebay, and was hoping for your opinions, prior to committing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Thanks,
Pat

Hi Pat,
if the presstoff texture and the stampings are the only details to go by,given the small picture of the whole rig, I'd vote for a !In my opinion is a very nice set,and even if the tool is dated1936 it doesn't detract at all since the Waa is quite hard to find in its "earlier" Weimar guise!
The carrier was made by Otto Reichel,Inh.Rudolf Fisher,Lengefeld/Erzgebirge...one of the better known manufacturer,as our friend Kim will comfirm!
Manny
Manny

[kmh]

Glenn

For your knowledge the tan carrier are maybe not rare but unusual and nowaday pretty expensive. The tan coulor always indicate late war manufacturing.

Ilyushin

I have looked on the rig you mentioned and it looked pretty ok to me: But still remember we need to have the stuff in our hands for the final judgement. Anyway the WaA in the blade looks correct for 1936 year and the WaA 300 is correct for eue. So probably ok.

Kim

[ILYUSHIN]

Thanks

Hello Manny and Kim,

Thanks for your observations, intially it looked ok to me, but I am a novice when it comes to equipment. On the positive side, I am learning quite a bit on equipment from all of you.

Thanks again and best wishes,
Pat

[Michael Kuligowski]

I am with Manny on this one.. markings look odd.. same like leather strap.. and "presstoff".. and ageing..
CRAP IMHO