Wehrmacht square shelter - Rb-numbered

[Ir 143]

Tent.

The small holes with eyes ont the side don't look to be in the middle, strange.

[david stone]

I have seen one of these before, and it isn't Swiss. I have grey square ones, some dated as late as 41 I think, and it might be a case of splittertarn being used instead of grey cloth for whatever reason. For who are they made, don't know.....army or some other organization?
One difference the grey Swiss ones have from grey German ones is the Swiss ones have two sets of thread loops to run a rope through when wearing it as a cape.

[GAMS1]

For sure not french made or post war made by the german industry for the french army ...
The shape is different and very simple made .
Nick

[antifake]

And what about "nachrichten" square shelter? They existed in green colour, why not camo?

Radek

[MP44_tom]

Unfortunately still a mystery.... I'm sure someone will come up with the evidence and definite answer one day......

Indeed, when examining the Zelt closely it doesn't give a "swiss" feeling, but why all the trouble with the loops etc, if it was a Nachrichten ground shelter, that is an item i still can't explain.....

One day the mystery will be solved

Tom
www.mp44.nl

[me6_130]

Is the lenght of a side of the square shelter the same as the longest of the sides of the Zeltbahn? If so, then it could be the ground cloth of the tent, as some have mentioned, if not...I don't know what it could be


Carles

[Sonnenwende]

It would help if someone with one of these Zelts could do some lenght/height measurements and look for the loops already mentioned (as seen on Swiss Zelts) and possible sign of removal of Swiss Army property marks. I would like to see closeups of the buttonholes and possible measurements of the lengths of the buttonholes. Also closeup of manufacturers Stamps would be helpfull.

Untill then we can only make unsupported guesses about the origin.

And of course if someone has photographic evidence

We know the square Zelts were used in the armed forces for Nachrichten use, but was this continued well into the war?

Regards
Sonnenwende

[david stone]

[QUOTE=me6_130;6555080]Is the lenght of a side of the square shelter the same as the longest of the sides of the Zeltbahn? If so, then it could be the ground cloth of the tent, as some have mentioned, if not...I don't know what it could be
No, it doesnt mate up with any side of a Zelt. We sometimes use the Swiss ones as groundcloths in our WWII zelts - the WWI pattern square zeltbahn is much smaller than the floor plan of the Zeltbahn 31 tent made of four shelter tents.

[butschekantiques]

Hi everyone,

sorry I did not see the last replies.
The size is roughly 166cm + 153cm.

Hope this helps
Klaus

[jwburchell]

I found this thread as I was researching a similar item which I was given by a German friend while visiting Germany last month. He indicated that it was from WWII. The measurements are approximately 159 cm. x 166 cm. While the measurements are slightly different from the one shown in this thread above, it looks quite similar. There are traces of a stamp, albeit illegible. Note also the seam in the middle showing that it consists of two separate sections sewn together.

Any and all comments would be appreciated. Thanks for looking.

Regards,

John

Obverse & reverse views:

[jwburchell]

Some detail:

[jwburchell]

The illegible stamp:

[knoffhoff]

Meanwhile I have seen several of the same type and do own one in italian camo myself.
For me personally there is no doubt about them being original german produced and used.
I'm pretty certain it is the "Zeltbahn alter Art für technische Zwecke" (old style Zeltbahn for technical purposes.

In the regulation 64 f V 3 V. of the Reichswehrminister dated 30.03.1933 it is stated that the demand on Zeltbahnen a/A für technische Zwecke from now on should be covered out of stock of soldiers equipment if the tropps are still in posession of that kind of Zeltbahn. If hey don't have them anymore other stocks should be used.

Original Druckschriften state that the Zeltbahn a/A was part of the equipment of many different troops.
Just to give an example, in D 825/2 "Gerätenachweis für einen Gebirgs- Tornisterfunktrupp f" of the year 1941, it is listed as standard equipment.
In my opinion the square Zeltbahn was used for technical purposes till the end of the war.
There are many uniform color square Zeltbahnen with clear maker marks or RBnr., with dates ranging from 1938(maybe even earlier) till at least 1943 while a RBNr. without date could be anytime between 43 and 45.

There have been stocks of that Zeltbahn, but obviously those stocks couldn't last forever. So they had to produce more of them at some point.
Using camo material of course was a option, especially when you could use captured italian material of which plenty was available.

[sfmike1]

Great thread your guys....fascinating that this variation is somewhat unknown.
SF Mike

[ZAM]

Great research Marco!

Best regards
Dirk