Pioneer spade

[Schneckenmacher]

Hello there,

after unsuccessfully posting in a couple of forums I'll try this as kind of my last ray of hope ...

Can sb. please give uncover the secret of this Pionierspaten:
http://www.bilder-space.de/bild-IMAGjpg-15568.htm
http://www.bilder-space.de/bild-IMAGjpg-15569.htm
http://www.bilder-space.de/bild-IMAGjpg-15570.htm

It's stamped on the left-hand side (unforunately unreadable) and gots a total length of ~88cm.
The metal part has a width of ~22cm and a height of ~23cm.

Cheers

[Germania88]

standard short issue pionier shovel, to attach to the backpack of the pioniers.

[Hoss]

Hello looks like a very nice model 96 to me imo you can't really go on total length so many got broken during both wars and handles replaced its very hard to judge.
I'd be interested what members like Patrick think of the stamp btw its misinformation to call them specific Pioniere.

I love them too

Regards

[Hoss]

with hopefully your permission my friend.

Eric

[MP44_tom]

In my opinion it has a risk of being a post war or pre war (i don't know pre war stuff very good) spade.....

I also have post war spade with 77 stamp which looks exactly like this (bought it very cheap)

different construction in comparison to german ww2 spades....

blade should look like this



Tom
www.mp44.nl

[Hoss]

Hello Tom
Thank you for showing those wonderful examples mine are all Imperial the lower one is as were issued '18 to assault medium calibre mortar crews I've also a W2 dated example but not with me at the moment.. Most are hard to tell because corrosion regarding the stamps , two points I've noticed latter models are made from thinner plate and or the angle folds are very square as in the gents posted example so imo quite safe to assume as used W2.
Better would be like the ones you show that as far as I know are usually clearly waff stamped and wartime dated or again, spot welded even with reinforcing strips also welded.
I'm not really up on what happened interwar for certain, basically these pattern spaten serviced the German Army for close to a 80yrs starting in the mid 1860's. Official became issue 1895-98 issued per number to Infantry and Pioneer Battalions, during the first war while on the defensive they carried out trials on issued axes spaten other entrenching tools etc, they continued usefulness recommending various shaft lengths probably to stop breakages that dragged on for over 8months!
Sorry to bleat on regarding Imperial Gents the norm appears to be for initial assault troops to cut the wooden shaft so not to protrude above the soldiers height while clipped to the pack/belt from original photo archives as in my second example shown.

Other tools from my collection all Imperial unfortunately but the lower is probably familiar to you W2 boys similar used W2 one has a replaced shaft.

Regards

[Schneckenmacher]

Hello folks,

thank you very much for your discussion!
I was really afraid of never getting additional hints to my spade.
Thank you Eric for uploading the pictures.

Would it be possible to show some pictures of your postwar spade and the stamp on it, Tom?
(Is it from the NVA?)

As I understand you correctly Eric, you guess it to be a M96 but used/produced in ww2?
Can you please explain what you meant with the

the angle folds are very square

?
And one last question about the purpose - you said that it hasn't necessarily to be a pioneer spade, could it also be from the RAD (what would also be possible)?

Again, thank you guys!
Mathias

[Schneckenmacher]

Hello together,

I just want to reactivate the thread - still beeing very interested in the answers to the open questions and if possible, it would be great to see your pictures Tom

Cheers

[Grubhy]

Fatastic thread

Eric would You please add some info regarding web/canvas entrenching tool? Some collectors do believe that these were issued for DAK, I'm not one of them but these are still big hole in my knowledge

[Schneckenmacher]

I will try it once again

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