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**corporalSteiner** · 10-05-2010, 03:12 PM

running start on a pioneer enquiry.
yes, these side pouches are wearable independent of backpack.
y strap loops would be worn to give belt support when pioneer pouches are worn. no loops and they would probably drag the belt down, loaded down with tnt, gasmask or just handfulls of stick grenades-a common use for these side pouches were just two places to stash easy-to-get stick grenades.
loops are easily enough fitted on the belt and placed easily where the support fits best.
this forum is riddled with pics of this equipment and plenty of info.
its easy to get besotted with this field of heer activity, indeed, you will see it so on this forum.
as you probably know, the side pouches were manufactured as pairs, and joined with a stiched web strap and buckle.

**Gran Sasso** · 10-05-2010, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post

as you probably know, the side pouches were manufactured as pairs, and joined with a stiched web strap and buckle.

I never seen a pair connected by a strap (simular to MP44 mag.-pouches). - I only have seen pouches that had a vertikal D-ring at their back, wich was meant to be connected to the backpack (when worn).

**MP44_tom** · 10-06-2010, 02:02 AM

Hi

Here my set.... the straps are originally sewn....

I believe that the straps on these pouches often were cut...... but I also believe that they are supposed to be together...
Tom
www.mp44.nl

**Gran Sasso** · 10-06-2010, 06:36 AM

I just learned that the pair you are showing is the earlier modell. Later modells just have a D-ring (like seen on the right side of your pouch) on both sides.

Those D-rings are meant be hooked in the hooks fixed on both lower sides of the backpack. In those hooks were also fixed the back-pack-straps of the Y-straps.

Originally posted by MP44_tom View Post

Hi

Here my set.... the straps are originally sewn....

I believe that the straps on these pouches often were cut...... but I also believe that they are supposed to be together...
Tom
www.mp44.nl

**corporalSteiner** · 10-06-2010, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post

I just learned that the pair you are showing is the earlier modell. Later modells just have a D-ring (like seen on the right side of your pouch) on both sides.

Those D-rings are meant be hooked in the hooks fixed on both lower sides of the backpack. In those hooks were also fixed the back-pack-straps of the Y-straps.

hadnt heard that theory before, and i think its damned original.
ive seen late war italian web heer side pouches, and they have remants of the connecting strap.
i have only seen seperated side pouches with remnants of the connecting strap. ive not seen single pouches, strapless and originally made so, as you describe. where youve heard this info would be of interest, certainly.

**2ND. PIONEER** · 10-06-2010, 07:41 AM

Thank you for the info. it answered my questions and then some.
this is a great forum for information!!

thanks again

**Gran Sasso** · 10-06-2010, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post

hadnt heard that theory before, and i think its damned original.
ive seen late war italian web heer side pouches, and they have remants of the connecting strap.
i have only seen seperated side pouches with remnants of the connecting strap. ive not seen single pouches, strapless and originally made so, as you describe. where youve heard this info would be of interest, certainly.

Just spoken to a friend, who has one of the best fieldgear-collections I know of.
Will visit him in a couple of days, and take fotos of both sets (with conneting straps, and with only D-rings) set-up.

Have only owned one complete set (of course also lots of single items), when putting that one (with D-rings) on a mannequin, it was obvious that the D-rings were meant to connect to the lower hooks of the backpack.

That way the weight of the belt-pouches is supported in a simular way then the ones with conneting strap, without the need of a strap, and the problems with removing a single belt-pouch, if necessary.

**corporalSteiner** · 10-06-2010, 10:49 AM

sounds like an until-now unknown variant. at least i have never seen intentionally seperated side pouches. the pics should open many's eyes to the depth of kit patterns in this arm of service.

**Gran Sasso** · 10-11-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post

sounds like an until-now unknown variant. at least i have never seen intentionally seperated side pouches. the pics should open many's eyes to the depth of kit patterns in this arm of service.

Here are the promised (quickly taken) fotos of a quickly arrangened set-up:

Also we connected the back-pack-strap of the Y-strap with the lower hook of the backpack, IMO this is not what it was meant to be, the backpack would stay in place simply by its weight, and also secured to the side-pouches, so could not move. Also, the position of the lower hooks that way (on the side) will not be suitable to hold the y-strap-straps in place.

Attached Files

**corporalSteiner** · 10-12-2010, 02:21 AM

im not convinced....this pouch has the d-ring as normally found on attached pairs. the other pouch would have the long strap connecting them. this set up only shows the seperated bag that has the d-ring, and not some specially made single late war side bag. the backpack looks late war - fittings and rear construction. but unless we see a pair of side pouches in the way you first described,a factory made unconnected set, this last pic doesnt represent anything new imo. however these nice pics and thanks for going to any trouble-are those ystraps calvary backpack40 ones? seem so...

**SOT(D)** · 02-27-2012, 11:31 AM

Packs to hooks to loops...

...and the thigh bones connected to the hip-bone...and on and on. Not to be a johnny-come-lately, but i agree with Steiner. I have a set of pioneer pouches, backpack and a demo bag/satchel. The pouches do not match, and the right one is missing what I believed for years to be the web tab and d ring..... Never put much thought to it until a few years back, and always considered that a strap not unlike a bread bag strap would be used. Even the repros seen have d ring tabs on left and right. I have not seen images of L/R pouches with amendments for a detachable strap, so...

On the theory of the pack attaching to the pouches....besides there not likely to be a L/R pouch series with a detachable strap,... to wear them in such a configuration, one would have to be incredibly height impaired. the horizontal D ring tag tab is set below the belt loops. Given the length of the pioneer back pack, the average man wearing it would have the top hooks at about the upper shoulder blade area, and the bottom of the pack would come in at the belt line, or just above. No military rucksack I know of, rests below the belt line, and civie frame packs do not count, as they have integral waist belts. Field gear is designed with the range and motion of the torso, and the weight borne, in mind.
If anyone has ever worn this gear with a full load (sturmgepacks, rucks, or pioneer packs, along with breadbag, full canteens, e-tool and bayonet, ammo, etc... ) you will notice that the pack and weight in the rear, pulls down in the back, and pulls up the belt in front. Even with the weight bearing down, the pack would not reach down below the belt loops...for the pioneer pouches would be weighed down.
Also, the lower hooks on the pioneer pack are ot as far apart as on the 39 pack or rucksack, and if hooked to the pouches, all would be resting on the lower back and anterior hips. To have frontal access to the pouches, when worn in the suggested fashion, the pioneer in question would need a 22-24 inch waist...and have scoliosis. It makes some sense when you hook up a left pouch to a pack, but not if you have to wear it. I am not throwing stones, just lending an experienced voice.

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