G43 Pouches ! From Business is Business to B2B !

[edoudou68]

It's nothing than the market law!

Right Alex,
The difference is that Tropical sidecaps are original, not this G43 Pouches
Look my description in the top

You will never find a Tropical sidecaps for 70€ ! Be realist !

It is not called "market law" but "real value" of a piece

Alex, find for me an Original blue G43 Pouch "Otto Koberstein" for 70€ and we can discuss (not a russian fake, that's easy)

[derka]

hello,

edoudou, does the worn G43 pouch with holes at corners belong to you ?

derka

[RayG]

[quote=Chris Pittman;2845732]I saw a dealer set up at a show with a massive pile of original Luftwaffe bread bag straps, many hundreds of straps. He told me the story of how he got them. An importer he knew had bought many hundreds of Thompson ammunition pouches from Russia. It seems these were lend-lease items that had never been used and had been stored in huge quantities for decades. When the crates came from Russia, the bread bag straps had been used as packing material to cushion the Thompson pouches. ]

Im sorry I can't join in the debate on the G43 pouches from Russian as I have not personally examined any of them closely so can't offer an opinion. However the story about the straps used as packing material jogged my memory and reminded me of a post a few years ago, possibly on this site, were there was a post from a dealer/collector who received a bunch of G43 pouches that looked like the ones in question that were also used as packing material for some items he received from Russia. I believe the items were un-issued P38 holsters but don't quote me on that. I believe this was about the same time that these minty Russian pouches started to show up for sale. The only question I have is that these packing material stories seem to be quite a coincident. Wonder if the stories are true? Ray

[19BARBAROSSA41]

Pierre,
Prices rise for original items ! Of course !
But your speculation and your calculations about this fake G43 Pouch is absolutely absurd !

When G43 Pouches from Russian stock came out, it costs 200/250 € And now Pierre ???
What it’s the price now ? HA HA HA
70€ or 50€ ?
In 2 years it will be 30 €
It's ridiculous

Regards, Ed

any civilizated argument are worthless in debate with you !!! it's your opinion and only your opinion !! If you don't understand laws of market than you will not understand anything else.

[Soldat de Fer]

-It is more shocking : on Russian fakes it is easy to push a magazine in a compartment, while on ORIGINAL G43 Pouch we must be forced
-After that, I do not speak of oilcloth, which is much more plastic on Russian fakes…

If you doubt this proof, I can not do anything for you !

Hello
I do not think there is a need to insult each other , we are all here to help each others.
But concerning these comment above , you are very mistaken , and this is why...
You are comparing a mint un-issued pouch with a used one , of course in a mint pouch the mag will enter easily , these were properly stored for years , now yours was used , probably badly stored somewhere ( you mentioned a farm or something ?) the material , since we are talking leather ( and even artificial), would have shrunked with age , element such as exposure to humidity etc...) . I have a lot of perfectly 100% mint , never issued piece of fieldgear made of leather , such has K98 pouches , bayo frog , shovel carrier , belt , map-case etc... etc.... and all have still their shape from the factory , and whatever they were used for , any thing you put or insert in it , will fit perfectly , period !!! and these items were perfectly stored for years . Now , items in in-issued condition which were exposed to element ( such has humidity , heat etc...) have somewhat shrunked and it is hard to insert anything in it ( such as a shovel carrier i have , in-issued but was damaged by time , I can not put a shovel in it !!! but I have no problem inserting it in the mint , perfectly preserved !!!).
My point being , you would have to compare a perfectly mint in-issued and perfectly stored pouch ( of what you call 100% original) versus it's exact same counterpart ( what you call the Russian fakes).
when it come to the manufacture , all those coming from Russia are late-war dated and you cannot really compare it , to your early dated one .
Anyway , if you know the guys who produced them post-war , please do let me know where they are , I want to meet them and place an order !!!.
Best Regards
Pierre-Yves

[Michael Kuligowski]

pretty much I have no clue what these arguments posted here are coming from..

rivets, Dring.. material..sewing, markings etc - are all the same in proved examples as in their ex-russian brothers - look for athread from the past shoving two same pouches - one coming from attic in Poland - second from russian depot - both are from the same batch and manufacturer - and are identical twins..

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=144793

thats the thread - and guess who started it ??
on the bottom of first pagwe You have gkv44 from Polish attic.. and on the top of the same page You have gkv from russian supply....

somebody needs new glasses....

[Glenn Barbaritz]

Good Mickael and Glenn, you want to play ?
-Markings on ORIGINAL G43 Pouch is very attenuated
-“D ring” slightly larger on the Russian model
-The two rivets that hold the piece of leather for “D ring” are full on ORIGINAL G43 Pouch, while on the Russian lot they are different
-The 2 metal pins are bigger and less fine on Russian fakes
-The legs of closures on the front were made in cigarette papers, while on ORIGINAL G43 Pouch it is thick leather
-The Russian copies of the lot are little bigger than ORIGINAL G43 Pouch
-It is more shocking : on Russian fakes it is easy to push a magazine in a compartment, while on ORIGINAL G43 Pouch we must be forced
-After that, I do not speak of oilcloth, which is much more plastic on Russian fakes…

well, I will thank you for finally coming out with these details that you are stating. Im gonna be honest with myself here. some of the traits you speak of and show on the/your examples I have exactly on mine. a few are slightly different. mine shows classic signs of long term untouched storage. maybe a copy made decades ago, maybe an original variation. obviously one of the two. I could easily cut my losses on my pouch and lose about $40.00 if I felt it was bad, but at this point I do feel its genuine. once again my opinion and I guess since its in my dislpay case I have to live with it. I was hoping you would post a few interior/side views of your pouch that is almost identical to mine but I guess that isnt gonna happen. I would have like to take exact shots of mine so we could see the differences internally. I guess this item is always gonna be a "pink smock" unless some detailed pics are presented to really compare I guess this will be my last comment on this thread. I have nothing I can really add here. Glenn

[Gary Cain]

Even using cheap Chinese slave labour you can't make them for 30 euro's. Get a clue about how the world works. I have been to a couple of the armories in the Ukraine(though it was Russia still when I was there) and there were THOUSANDS of weapons still there in good order in storage. They had ALL OF THE ACCOUTREMENTS AS WELL! I bought 500 MG42's and 500 MG34's(because it was all I could afford at the time!!!!) and brought them back to the US as parts kits. I suggest that you GO THERE AND HAVE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF! There are a couple of armories in the Ukraine that are selling stuff off right now...go look! Then come back and tell us what you saw. Until then your opinion is valueless.


Gary

Pierre,
Prices rise for original items ! Of course !
But your speculation and your calculations about this fake G43 Pouch is absolutely absurd !

When G43 Pouches from Russian stock came out, it costs 200/250 € And now Pierre ???
What it’s the price now ? HA HA HA
70€ or 50€ ?
In 2 years it will be 30 €
It's ridiculous

Regards, Ed

[edoudou68]

Hi Gary ,
We are spoken G43 Pouches, not weapons ! It's absolutely not the same thing. There are no fakes in MG34 or 42 ...
We should not compare Breadbag straps with an ORIGINAL G43 Pouches.
It's like compare the scarcity of a butterdish and an SS DD M35 Helmet
My opinion is not valueless for any collector who is ok for doubt, and do not follow the herd
I know many collectors on WAF who know that these G43 Pouches are absolutely FAKE.
They do not want to discuss about that, because they know that it is unnecessary : There is too much money in games, so some collectors still say the opposite, even if they do not make investigate on this G43 Pouches !
But on this thread you are right Gary, my opinion is valueless because business is business

[edoudou68]

thats the thread - and guess who started it ??
on the bottom of first pagwe You have gkv44 from Polish attic.. and on the top of the same page You have gkv from russian supply....

Michael,
I never bought this 5 pouches.
Look at the comment of "Helmutderpa" and yours
All of this 5 pouches are FAKE of course.

[Gary Cain]

Edoudou,

Your opinion is valuless because you only have a small part of the informaton available to you and seem to choose to avoid learning more. That is called intellectual dishonesty(our politicians paractice it every day!), and you only read part of my post it seems.

I stated quite clearly that in addition to the weapons the accoutrements were there as well, that means slings, mag pouches, tool kits etc. Just imagine knocking out the German army on the eastern front, and then collecting all of the equipment and stashing it away because if the yankees attack and destroy your first line army you can completely re-equip your second line army. Additionally, you have all of these weapons you can give to your client states to use in their wars of aggression against their neighbors.

Now lets do some simple math. There were approximtely 750,000 G/K43 rifles made. That means that at one time there were at least 750,000 mag pouches. Where did they all go? Why do you blissfully accept the triple pouches in their multitude for the K98k(from the same source I might add) but choose to believe that the G/K43 pouches all vanished? The sheer number and multiplicity of variations negates your contention.

No faker would spend the amount of money on material and labour to make this quantity and then dump them on the market so that they could crash the market. Fakers don't do that. They make a small quantity(except for Herr Floch and his EK's) and try to sell their wares for just a little under the actual sale price of whatever it is they are making. That way for a little bit of effort they get the maximum return. Jeez, it almost sounds like how a successful business is run! That's because it is! The fakers are business people. They manufacture a product and sell it for the maximum return they can get for the minimum amount of expense in production. They also want to turn their money over as fast as possible(they do have bills to pay after all) so the idea of making thousands of pouches to then sit on shelves gathering dust is ridiculous. That is how businesses fail.

Are there fake G/K43 pouches out there? Absolutely! And for the most part they have been well identified and catalogued. But just think about this. When you discount items such as these because of a lack of information and some other person(or you for that matter) destroys one of them because of anger, they are destroying a piece of history. Ignore the monetary value, just think about why you collect. Do you collect because you are a investor and ultimately wish to cash in, or do you collect because you love history and wish to preserve it?

Oh and just so there is no question, I have no pouches for sale and in fact have never sold a G/K43 pouch though I have sold 100 or so of the magazines themselves, which I brought out in 1993.

Gary

Hi Gary ,
We are spoken G43 Pouches, not weapons ! It's absolutely not the same thing. There are no fakes in MG34 or 42 ...
We should not compare Breadbag straps with an ORIGINAL G43 Pouches.
It's like compare the scarcity of a butterdish and an SS DD M35 Helmet
My opinion is not valueless for any collector who is ok for doubt, and do not follow the herd
I know many collectors on WAF who know that these G43 Pouches are absolutely FAKE.
They do not want to discuss about that, because they know that it is unnecessary : There is too much money in games, so some collectors still say the opposite, even if they do not make investigate on this G43 Pouches !
But on this thread you are right Gary, my opinion is valueless because business is business

[Michael Kuligowski]

dont worry Gary nothing will change His mind - even looking at 2 identical gkv44 pouches from 2 different sources...
best thing about this pouches is smell - this one of a kind smell....

anyway, my opinion about this discussion is the same as about Gay people - the more Gay guys - the more ladies for me

more people saying these are fakes - more pouches for me.. and for better price

Ps Edou- with so few REAL pouches around - can You tell me - why russians faked these models that are virstually impossible to get from other source - WHAT did they use as a model to do these fakes ?? HOW did they know about how these models should look - if some of these patterns didnt exist in any collections before ?? (I guess these fakers are sidekicks - they knew how to make parfect fakes without even seeing originals ?? ).. and why for Christ sake they didnt fake also a blue one ??

[airborne_steve]

Edoudou,

Your opinion is valuless because you only have a small part of the informaton available to you and seem to choose to avoid learning more. That is called intellectual dishonesty(our politicians paractice it every day!), and you only read part of my post it seems.

I stated quite clearly that in addition to the weapons the accoutrements were there as well, that means slings, mag pouches, tool kits etc. Just imagine knocking out the German army on the eastern front, and then collecting all of the equipment and stashing it away because if the yankees attack and destroy your first line army you can completely re-equip your second line army. Additionally, you have all of these weapons you can give to your client states to use in their wars of aggression against their neighbors.

Now lets do some simple math. There were approximtely 750,000 G/K43 rifles made. That means that at one time there were at least 750,000 mag pouches. Where did they all go? Why do you blissfully accept the triple pouches in their multitude for the K98k(from the same source I might add) but choose to believe that the G/K43 pouches all vanished? The sheer number and multiplicity of variations negates your contention.

No faker would spend the amount of money on material and labour to make this quantity and then dump them on the market so that they could crash the market. Fakers don't do that. They make a small quantity(except for Herr Floch and his EK's) and try to sell their wares for just a little under the actual sale price of whatever it is they are making. That way for a little bit of effort they get the maximum return. Jeez, it almost sounds like how a successful business is run! That's because it is! The fakers are business people. They manufacture a product and sell it for the maximum return they can get for the minimum amount of expense in production. They also want to turn their money over as fast as possible(they do have bills to pay after all) so the idea of making thousands of pouches to then sit on shelves gathering dust is ridiculous. That is how businesses fail.

Are there fake G/K43 pouches out there? Absolutely! And for the most part they have been well identified and catalogued. But just think about this. When you discount items such as these because of a lack of information and some other person(or you for that matter) destroys one of them because of anger, they are destroying a piece of history. Ignore the monetary value, just think about why you collect. Do you collect because you are a investor and ultimately wish to cash in, or do you collect because you love history and wish to preserve it?

Oh and just so there is no question, I have no pouches for sale and in fact have never sold a G/K43 pouch though I have sold 100 or so of the magazines themselves, which I brought out in 1993.

Gary

Gary,

I used this logic on this guy and it didn't work. I have 2, K43 rifles, which IMHO, are more rare than the pouches anyday of the week. Regarding the G43 pouches, at first, one G43 pouch was to be issued for every G43 rifle (minimum of 700K were produced). The long term goal was to issue two pouches for every rifle. The final goal was that all infantry soldiers were to eventually receive a G/K43 but that never happend (only 2 per squad was ever fielded). So you figure that the manufactuers were cranking these things out to meet the strategic demand/goals. The production of the pouches was greater than the production of the G43 rifles due to interuption cuased by bombing of the armorments factories.

P.S. Do you have any G/K43 Mags for sale?

Steve

[Fsoq]

2 german dealers and a big belgian one told me that 23K have been found in bad condition and only 8K were in very good condition. I saw a pic of a huge pile of destroyed pouches (rusted rivets and D ring, moldy leather)...but I could'nt evaluate the amount.
Does anybody know if it is true ? Have you already heard a story like it ? If so, it could be terrible for our hobby (could you imagine how many fakes will be made from original tan material, original D ring, rivets, ...).

Regards, Pierre

[Gary Cain]

Hello Pierre,

I only have my experience to go from and back in '93 there were probably 5k at the armory I was at. Of the 5k I would guess that 50% were wrecked do to poor storage. I would guess that another 25% were salvageable needing some major work. The last 25% though(the ones on the top of the pile of course) were in great shape with just dust all over them. I couldn't get the Russians to sell me any though because they didn't know how much they were worth and wouldn't sell till they knew that. That bureuocratic mentality at full force!


Gary

2 german dealers and a big belgian one told me that 23K have been found in bad condition and only 8K were in very good condition. I saw a pic of a huge pile of destroyed pouches (rusted rivets and D ring, moldy leather)...but I could'nt evaluate the amount.
Does anybody know if it is true ? Have you already heard a story like it ? If so, it could be terrible for our hobby (could you imagine how many fakes will be made from original tan material, original D ring, rivets, ...).

Regards, Pierre