98k pouches

[John Hodgin]

Robbie has these in pairs but had only singles displayed. Sorry he didn't bring his best examples

[John Hodgin]

black

That brown one was actually issued. This black one is mint. It should be stated, though it is obvious, that Robbie is from the "everything unissued" school of collecting.

[Willi Z.]

Maybe we can start a good discussion on 98k pouches. Here is a quick view of a bunch of mine.

Willi

[John Hodgin]

NIIIIIIIICE!
Now we know where they are stockpiled, with you and Robbie

[hcliffe]

Can someone help me with pouches? There are many different maker marks, dates, RBN's etc. on the backs of these. Were some made post war for Germany, some by other countries? Or are all pouches that "look" like this ww2 German?

[Karol98k]

...

Willi Zahn, just sent you a priv message
Thanks
Karol

[kmh]

Ammo pouces story

Hallo !

As a collector of ammo pouches in particular I naturally find the new tread interesting regarding K98 pouch’s and even it’s a simple piece of equipment and mass-produced too almost every man in the whole Wehrmacht had two so no wonder a lot of different executions have seen light.

I need to explain some general info’s about German pouches, the model used most in the 2 WW are called M 1911 who can take 30 round of 7,92 mm.ammo. In the 1WW two main models was used namely M 1909 and M 1911 the M 1909 take 45 rounds. You can found M 1909 with very early Year stampings like 1914-1918 used in the 2 WW along with some never too.

Lets narrow in to explain the types and colours of the pouches: The M 1911 was made with Alu. Fittings up to about 1941-2 superseded by Steel afterwards and the way of attaching the pouch to the belt undergoing a chance too from an “Open type” to a “close type” together with the fittings chance from long to short.

The way of manufacturing also went to some chances sewing who has being the normal way of holding together of all the small parts get displaced by riveting the parts of the pouch but it slowly took place and not 100 %.

The colours of the pouches are from my best knowledge a kind of Brown leather and there could be some differs but almost light Brown, later on the towards the III Reich time different arms get different colours and in the 30’ties and in the beginning of the war The Army/Navy and the Police my still have light /dark Brown, LW have Chocolate Brown and maybe also some other organisations have a demands for colours but that’s haven’t yet came to my knowledge.
In 1940 an order was given to dye all pouches / Leather equipment Dark/Black for camouflage purpose and mostly it have been fulfilled. And therefore do we often found dual tone leather equipment Black on the front and Brown on the backside, but it stops later on in the 40’ties when all Black leather came out from the Makers. And naturally some Brown has survived sitting by the Police it believes.

Regarding the Punching of Makes and Years its also a very mixed subject to speak about caused by the many deferens way the Germans have performed it out but some Main types are Full Maker with City and year mainly about up to ca.1940, tree letter code starts ca.1939 and RB Nr. (Reichbetrieb Nummer) Starts ca. 1942
The RF. Nr. ( Reich Fabrik Nummer) are a little strange to me but I think it’s the same together with none markings ?

The Maker mark are strait ahead, tree letter code are mostly known, The RB/RF. Nr. “system” is still not solved but I work hard on it!
Let me say here NO RULES, NO TEXT BOOK, its all a matter of coincidences from my experiences with the above and below mentioned “Rules” in mind but its very unlike the Germans. An war was going on and pouches wasn’t I believe to consider like weapon’s. Meaning all types, all executions, all markings, all colours, all everything are mixed up! So that’s fun to found out.

Further on.
The pouches can be found with a lot of different markings both inside/outside depending who they was the belongings of it was mostly a pre-war and early war habits the markings got to a end I think 1940.
Army use Regimental markings, Navy stamp with Eagle M, SS with SS runes and maker codes, other formations could happen to have some other specials but I am not sure about this.

End for now.
Fakes or new made pouches are around but its very easy to recognise new from old, several countries have used pouches of same model especial Finland who marks SA mostly 1 WW. But the German pouches will be easy to spot mostly caused by the Maker names and locations.

This is not the whole story about ammo pouches but only a part of it, much more are for sure to tell but this is what I could say in a “short” ahemm time.

Regards from Copenhagen

Kim

[kmh]

I forgot

Hi

I forgot to answer the pouches are post war made in Germany I have some with the year 1951 and 1953 can’t remember maybe also 1959 they are 100% alike pre war aluminium “open strap” pouches but dyed Black and made with very pebbled leather.

I too collect the Leather Makers Mark and there names together with all RB/RF numbers for my registration of pouches and other stuff so all members please be kind Mail me with what you have and can read on the leather equipment.

You can use the following Mail kimhenvig@mail.tele.dk

Thanks in advance and Tschüss

Kim

[J Melvin]

This one is probably postwar, but of typical German construction. No maker's mark or date. Brass rivets and the hook is also brass. Anybody have any idea of country and time of origin?

[J Melvin]

It's made of both leather and ersatz leather. Note interior.

[John Hodgin]

Hello Jack,

I don't know those pouches, but bet some member will. I think many European countries used a similar design.

Superb information Kim, thanks!

Here is my favorite. It's from an old DAK collection.

[Perry Floyd]

Man I like those

[kmh]

Pouches again

The brown pouches in mention are for sure not German, I believe a fellow named Kruk! Have written a book about worldwide ammo pouches, but sorry to say don't have a copy neither an ISBN number.
Mostly this types with Bronze or Messing fittings are Eastern Europe or Austrian (Mannlicher) look at the sewing on the pouch body under the lid not present that isn’t on a German pouch. Look like the 1 Ww a bit and in case of round sewing pattern it indicates the former states of CZ and Yugoslavia.

The DAK pouch is a beauty and caused by the Northern latitude of my country we never was pay any visit of the “Tropical equipped” guy’s regrettably mostly get dressed in the Green/Grey but in the contrary I have seen here some with original Winter camo. Coming out of Russia.

I am not sure about I told some observations that tell you something about the variations I have in my collection.

Black pouches with tree letter Code makings 1939, black full maker name and sewing 1944, RB.Nr 1944 riveted, RB.Nr light Brown (just seen) Black LW stamped 1940 (not normal) but a sign of the chances in the structures and a lack of the normal German army stringent way of producing and controlling equipment.

Regards from Copenhagen

Kim

[John Hodgin]

Hello again Kim,

Thanks for the additional information. These variations you mention are very interesting. Can you post photos of these sometime? I would like to see all of them, especially the maker marked, 44 dated example; very unusual!

Regards,
John

[kmh]

K98 Pouch

Hallo John and other!

I'll would like to show the Forum what they want/like but I am not still the owner of a digital camera, but I promise you a.s.a.p.

I just check! 6 pieces with Maker (Full information) from 1944 and 21 pieces from 1943, as you wrote quit unusual I agree it should all be concealed information’s but that’s also what had surprised me during my collecting. Haven’t counted my RB / RF and tree letter code’s from 1944 but its several pieces.
Just ask for further info. If needed

Kim