cleaning a frame

[eb28btoi]

Hello collectors all over the world

i have a qestion about a a frame i bought
i so incredable dirty and the d hooks have little rust on them
my qestion is howe cane i clean it whitout damage it

[Michael Kuligowski]

any pictures ??
what kind of dirt it is ??

[eb28btoi]

hi kuligow

sorry my camera is at the moment at the repair shop

but the a frame has layed fore about a very long thime on a basement
the canvas is dirty from a big layer of dust and the d hooks have surfes rust
the two leather straps are a bit dray but not torn or so

[david stone]

Well, I'll give you a few tips. If there is mildew or mold on the leather parts, clean that off with some alcohol. You should oil the leather straps well with some oil, even Ballistol would be good here. Now to clean the frame, make a weak solution of detergent and water. Not pure soap, but a detergent - like Persil or something. Nothing with bleach, as this will cause weakening of the fiber and more corrosion. Let is soak for a while in this mild solution. This will take off alot of dirt. Dump this out, make a clean batch and wet it again. Now you can more easily work the dirt off. If you must scrub use the very softest of brushes, like the sort used for model paints.

When you have gotten it pretty clean, rinse it well and dry off all the water you can with towels. It is best to put leather oil on the leather while it is damp - the oil will penetrate the leather much better while it is damp and drying out. Your metal hooks will have to suffer being wet, but if it dries fairly quickly they won't rust too much more. I do like to put oil or vaseline on as much of the metal as I can, but you don't want to get the oil on the fabric part.

If you have rust on metal and want to reduce it without damaging plating or paint, you can use Oxalic acid - it is sold here for removing rust stains on fabric. I've used it on some really bad gear and it removed the rust stains from the webbing and the hardware. But be warned - it can remove the color too. I wouldn't use it on your straps unless the hooks are gobs of rust where they meet the webbing and the web was all orange colored.
While you can make rust stains go away there is nothing you can do for a black mildew stain. Don't even waste time on it.

Finally, if your pack did have mold or mildew on it - put in a bag for a little while with some mothballs. (After it is totally dry.) The fumes will kill any mold spores and will help keep it from growing mold in the future.

Finally, don't try to clean it too hard. You can go again if it is still too dirty, and things look much better sometimes dried than they do wet. I usually rub off what loose rust I can with my fingers first and then oil it. Best to do as little as possible in most cases. Good luck! It would be nice if you made "Before" and "after" pics. Hope you understand enough of my rambling American English to be of any use to you..

Dave

Hello collectors all over the world

i have a qestion about a a frame i bought
i so incredable dirty and the d hooks have little rust on them
my qestion is howe cane i clean it whitout damage it

[Michael Kuligowski]

one thing - never oil leather ..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may use only some special treatment stuff for old leather - sometimes you may get it in good shoe stores..
and use it only on one side - painted (not on the side with natural leather color)

oil like "balistol" will darker leather.. and also you may get oil stains on canvas part of frame

You may use alkohol on canvas part ....

DAVID !!! You want to wash aframe in water !?!?!?!?!?!!!?
it has a paper stiffer inside !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no water !!!! no washing !!!!

only dry .. delicate removal of dust.. maybe alkohol on the piece of rag to clean.. - nothing more.. You dont mess with items like that.. leave it in originall look - so You can see 60 years of history.... !!!

I would love to see pictures of this frame !!!

[derspiess63]

Well, I'll give you a few tips. If there is mildew or mold on the leather parts, clean that off with some alcohol. You should oil the leather straps well with some oil, even Ballistol would be good here. Now to clean the frame, make a weak solution of detergent and water. Not pure soap, but a detergent - like Persil or something. Nothing with bleach, as this will cause weakening of the fiber and more corrosion. Let is soak for a while in this mild solution. This will take off alot of dirt. Dump this out, make a clean batch and wet it again. Now you can more easily work the dirt off. If you must scrub use the very softest of brushes, like the sort used for model paints.

When you have gotten it pretty clean, rinse it well and dry off all the water you can with towels. It is best to put leather oil on the leather while it is damp - the oil will penetrate the leather much better while it is damp and drying out. Your metal hooks will have to suffer being wet, but if it dries fairly quickly they won't rust too much more. I do like to put oil or vaseline on as much of the metal as I can, but you don't want to get the oil on the fabric part.

If you have rust on metal and want to reduce it without damaging plating or paint, you can use Oxalic acid - it is sold here for removing rust stains on fabric. I've used it on some really bad gear and it removed the rust stains from the webbing and the hardware. But be warned - it can remove the color too. I wouldn't use it on your straps unless the hooks are gobs of rust where they meet the webbing and the web was all orange colored.
While you can make rust stains go away there is nothing you can do for a black mildew stain. Don't even waste time on it.

Finally, if your pack did have mold or mildew on it - put in a bag for a little while with some mothballs. (After it is totally dry.) The fumes will kill any mold spores and will help keep it from growing mold in the future.

Finally, don't try to clean it too hard. You can go again if it is still too dirty, and things look much better sometimes dried than they do wet. I usually rub off what loose rust I can with my fingers first and then oil it. Best to do as little as possible in most cases. Good luck! It would be nice if you made "Before" and "after" pics. Hope you understand enough of my rambling American English to be of any use to you..

Dave

Dave,
sorry to tell you mate, but I think that this would be the faster route towards the complete screwing up of our friend's frame !
I think Mr.Mike "Gimmeanaframeplease" Kuligowski has given the correct answer in this case!
My two A-fr...ahem...Cents!
Manny
Mike......I think your favourite Jazz piece is "Take the A-frame" !...What about Sly and The Family Stone's "Family A-frame" ?

[david stone]

Well, it is hard to judge the condition of something you can't see. And I wouldn't normally wash an article of field equipment unless it is recovered from a barn and has mold growing on it and has been trampled into the mud by farm animals. And while I hate to get things wet that never have been wet - these things were used for field service and got wet many times. Usually they can handle it once more. The paper in them is phenolic

impregnated and won't fall apart from being wet. Unless you have a fake one.

And yes, normally I don't oil leather. Only in the case of when it is totally stiff and immobile. For that I use Lexol, which you can't easily buy because we have no decent shoe stores anymore. Plus, alot of stuff that is sold here has silicone in it, great for fake breasts, but evil for atifacts. If I treat something it is because sombody is bound to pick it up and break part of it off if you aren't careful.

If this Aframe was mine, depending on the condition, I would probably either do nothing, or vaccuum some dust off it. If it was totally covered in dried mud and the leather was stiff as fried bacon...I probably would only rinse it off with distilled water.

So, thanks for reminding me of what I almost always tell people for advice - just don't do anything to it This is always the safest thing to do.

Conservation of any artifact is always a balance. Verdigris will eat away brass and copper. Sometimes the fabric is disintegrated by the improper PH balance in the leather that is sewn upon it. Alot of field gear is made of things that are trying to disintegrate in its own separate way.

To your "Never oil leather " I will add one which I really detest = "Never wash a zeltbahn in a washing machine."

Dave

one thing - never oil leather ..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may use only some special treatment stuff for old leather - sometimes you may get it in good shoe stores..
and use it only on one side - painted (not on the side with natural leather color)

oil like "balistol" will darker leather.. and also you may get oil stains on canvas part of frame

You may use alkohol on canvas part ....

DAVID !!! You want to wash aframe in water !?!?!?!?!?!!!?
it has a paper stiffer inside !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no water !!!! no washing !!!!

only dry .. delicate removal of dust.. maybe alkohol on the piece of rag to clean.. - nothing more.. You dont mess with items like that.. leave it in originall look - so You can see 60 years of history.... !!!

I would love to see pictures of this frame !!!

[david stone]

Right you are...I don't know what I was thinking. Somewhere in this world is an original A frame that had been run over for two weeks on a red mud road in the South. At work I consulted with our museums conservator as to how to handle it. Came out fine. But this was mud from only a few years back, not original mud... So please, don't throw any old moldy oil-soaked boots at me!! Pleasee!!!

Dave,
sorry to tell you mate, but I think that this would be the faster route towards the complete screwing up of our friend's frame !
I think Mr.Mike "Gimmeanaframeplease" Kuligowski has given the correct answer in this case!
My two A-fr...ahem...Cents!
Manny
Mike......I think your favourite Jazz piece is "Take the A-frame" !...What about Sly and The Family Stone's "Family A-frame" ?

[Michael Kuligowski]

Dave,
sorry to tell you mate, but I think that this would be the faster route towards the complete screwing up of our friend's frame !
I think Mr.Mike "Gimmeanaframeplease" Kuligowski has given the correct answer in this case!
My two A-fr...ahem...Cents!
Manny
Mike......I think your favourite Jazz piece is "Take the A-frame" !...What about Sly and The Family Stone's "Family A-frame" ?

well.. what can I do manny cant help it !

how do You know my favourite songs ?!!?!?!!?!


David.. no boots this time

we all may use some pictures of this frame - to judge what cleaning processes we can use.. or in case its a fake - dont clean it at all - give it to Dave as a punishment and we gonna wash it with his zeltbahns heeheheh ..

heheheeh.. just kiddin

[david stone]

Ahhhrrrggg!!!!What a nightmare!!! I can just imagine all the buttons tearing off on each other.. My zelts are only washed by the occasional soft rain whilst I sleep beneath them. With this washing I'll gladly take that A frame - so long as its a good fake
As to the boots - well, one can only try. But I think my luck is used up for a while...the last truffle I sniffed out was a pair of N&G flying goggles that I got for 15 whole yankee dollars...no washing....only optical cleaning cloth there! And that was while I still thought they might have been 1950 era Czech or something...

well.. what can I do manny cant help it !

how do You know my favourite songs ?!!?!?!!?!


David.. no boots this time

we all may use some pictures of this frame - to judge what cleaning processes we can use.. or in case its a fake - dont clean it at all - give it to Dave as a punishment and we gonna wash it with his zeltbahns heeheheh ..

heheheeh.. just kiddin

[derspiess63]

Ahhhrrrggg!!!!What a nightmare!!! I can just imagine all the buttons tearing off on each other.. My zelts are only washed by the occasional soft rain whilst I sleep beneath them. With this washing I'll gladly take that A frame - so long as its a good fake
As to the boots - well, one can only try. But I think my luck is used up for a while...the last truffle I sniffed out was a pair of N&G flying goggles that I got for 15 whole yankee dollars...no washing....only optical cleaning cloth there! And that was while I still thought they might have been 1950 era Czech or something...

Welcome back in the colecting/PRESERVING community David!
Manny