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SS eagle for identification

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    SS eagle for identification

    Hello all,

    I received this SS eagle in a very interesting set of scrapbooks from a WWII GI. The scrap books are full of drawings that the vet did, along with pictures, newspaper clippings, maps etc. I have zero doubt as to the authenticity of the books themselves, and this eagle was in the one of the books. Apart from a set of shoulder boards (which I will also post soon) there were no other insignia or TR items.

    Which eagle is this? Based on the info in the books, it seems as though the US vet came into contact with either the 1st or 12th SS.

    Assistance is much appreciated!
    Attached Files

    #2
    Fake eagle

    Comment


      #3
      Double post sorry

      Can you please delete

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by chahler View Post
        Fake eagle
        Wow, that really sucks. The scrap book is most certainly correct, but maybe the vet bought the eagle after the fact to "enhance" the scrap book? To be candid, I didn't consider the eagle to be a repro given that the scrap book has a lot of the GI's military documents (Passes, orders, extraction paperwork etc.), along with a number of hand drawn images (presumably by the GI) of various wartime scenes. The whole thing drips authenticity, so the fake eagle is particularly disappointing.

        As I mentioned above, it certainly doesn't preclude him from adding a repro eagle afterwards, but it doesn't seem likely given the content of the books (there are two).

        I suppose I should post the boards as well?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Darth2a View Post
          so the fake eagle is particularly disappointing.

          As I mentioned above, it certainly doesn't preclude him from adding a repro eagle afterwards, but it doesn't seem likely given the content of the books (there are two).
          He added it from the 70's onwards …

          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Catalogue

          2nd row down, 2nd from the left on this 1977 reproduction catalogue.

          Ian

          Comment


            #6
            Repros

            Hi Ian,

            That is great to see the pages from the 1977 repro catalog!
            Thanks for posting the link.

            Paul

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Darth2a View Post
              Hello all,

              I received this SS eagle in a very interesting set of scrapbooks from a WWII GI. The scrap books are full of drawings that the vet did, along with pictures, newspaper clippings, maps etc. I have zero doubt as to the authenticity of the books themselves, and this eagle was in the one of the books. Apart from a set of shoulder boards (which I will also post soon) there were no other insignia or TR items.

              Which eagle is this? Based on the info in the books, it seems as though the US vet came into contact with either the 1st or 12th SS.

              Assistance is much appreciated!
              I have to agree with Darth. Why would the GI, who is not a collector, go out and buy the alleged repro SS eagle, to add to his non-existant collection?

              I see this over and over again on the WAF. Some member obtains a vet's estate, either in the US or Europe, and in the estate are artifacts from the War. The vet was not a collector, per se, but picked this stuff up at the time for whatever reason. If the artifact does not match what 21st century collectors believe are consistent with their expectations, the object is branded as a fake.

              In the catalog from the 70s illustrating reproductions, these were based on some kind of original insignia or badge. This appears to be a hammer head variation.

              Another fact that is ignored, is the color change in the eagle from silver white to its present off color state. We see original eagles all the time that have changed color by age. I have brought this up before, and have been told it was from smoking! How did the smoke get into this vet's scrap book?

              Plus, as I always ask, these should be readily available at shows all the time if these are in fact repros.

              We love to jump to conclusions on the WAF.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post
                I have to agree with Darth. Why would the GI, who is not a collector, go out and buy the alleged repro SS eagle, to add to his non-existant collection?

                I see this over and over again on the WAF. Some member obtains a vet's estate, either in the US or Europe, and in the estate are artifacts from the War. The vet was not a collector, per se, but picked this stuff up at the time for whatever reason. If the artifact does not match what 21st century collectors believe are consistent with their expectations, the object is branded as a fake.

                In the catalog from the 70s illustrating reproductions, these were based on some kind of original insignia or badge. This appears to be a hammer head variation.

                Another fact that is ignored, is the color change in the eagle from silver white to its present off color state. We see original eagles all the time that have changed color by age. I have brought this up before, and have been told it was from smoking! How did the smoke get into this vet's scrap book?

                Plus, as I always ask, these should be readily available at shows all the time if these are in fact repros.

                We love to jump to conclusions on the WAF.

                Gary,

                Interesting points for sure. I can tell you all that the GI in question was very much NOT a collector. From what I have gleaned from the writings, he was only in combat for a very short time (3 weeks or so) and "snapped" and had to be removed from combat and placed in the rear echelon. He was a fairly good artist and a couple of the images he drew (of things he presumably saw) are somewhat unsettling.
                I never met the man (he has since passed on) but the materials left behind STRONGLY suggest that he wouldn't go buying repro items to "spruce up" his scrap book.

                I will post the shoulder boards that were also in the book here shortly.

                Comment


                  #9
                  100% post war eagle

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Journeymontana View Post
                    100% post war eagle
                    Pretty impressive conclusion of fact.

                    Wow, 100%!

                    How about some evidence?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sure no problem! 3.95eur buy a dozen if you want.

                      https://www.epicmilitaria.com/ss-arm...ey-thread.html

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have been looking for as many different original variations of SS embroidered eagles for about 7yrs. I get that there are a few random patterns that are not widely accepted. I would enjoy debating that pattern when it comes up! This is not one of those in my opinion. Here are my variations that I have collected.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Journeymontana View Post
                          Sure no problem! 3.95eur buy a dozen if you want.

                          https://www.epicmilitaria.com/ss-arm...ey-thread.html
                          Interesting. Certainly looks very similar, but the chest feathers on the epic piece are quite different from mine. Gary does a good point that if this is in fact a repro, than original ones must exist to be reproduced from.

                          Does anyone have a "original" one of these to compare to?

                          Normally, I would just chalk it up to a learning experience and move on, but it just doesn't seem like the kind of thing the vet would do given the subject matter of the scrapbooks.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Another fact that is ignored is that the repros are silver grey. The vet's eagle that started this thread has now aged to the brownish tone that is also seen in some of Journeymontana's eagles.

                            This is not done over night.

                            Too much smoking around the eagles?

                            Darth, as far as finding an "original" to compare the eagles too, look no farther than the one in the vet's scrap book.

                            That is what an original looks like in my opinion.

                            Too bad the guy is dead, he could have instantly cleared this up.

                            And congrats to you Mr. Darth, for thinking for yourself!
                            Last edited by Gary Symonds; 04-18-2019, 12:18 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I laugh out loud when you guys use the term "VET" without knowing anything about the guys service, hell we don't even know if it really was "vet" acquired. This may come as a shock to some of you but many on WAF lie and believe it or not many vet's lie about their service as well. In fact many who claim to be vet's where never even in the service. Lots of vet's bought crap at gun shows after the war thinking the stuff was real and not knowing any better. This would not be the first time a vet owned fake SS stuff. I remember a "vet" pick-up made by a guy at a gun show I was at. More then half the stuff the vet claimed to have picked up in combat was fake. The best part was when the guy died his kid wanted to sell all of his discharge documents, it turned out that he never served in WW2 and was stationed on Okinawa. So much for the old timers story of fighting his way onto the beaches of Normandy (which was very convincing btw). The eagle is fake, life goes on - Best advise next time buy the item not the story.
                              Last edited by dhunter93; 04-18-2019, 01:48 AM.

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