Jawohl
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Same type hawked in the Priess grouping.Comment
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So this group, owned by Steve Wolfe (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ss#post7973569) was junk?
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This is a curious thread on numerous levels ~ allow me to summarize.
First, because my first blush reaction to the subject tabs was very much the same as Gary Symond’s reaction. That they were interesting in that the workmanship, materials and assembly looked good but the stylized features gave (me, at least) a huge amount of pause. I think it’s safe to say everyone’s first reaction would be they were fakes. I sure did.
When Mike’s great reference site was pointed to for guidance (thanx by the way) I pointed out that Mike, being up there on business, looked at them and assured me they were authentic while certainly NOT what most of us are fond of.
Robert’s comment ~ that the Emedals tabs “are copies” ~ reflects the typical knee jerk reaction when seeing something that doesn’t reflect what we’re comfortable with. Now while I’ve done a stitch of business with Barry/Emedals and rarely hear a bad word about him, I don’t know how extensive his experience is with SS General’s insignia. Holverson, on the other hand, has handled a boatload of high end SS and other General’s rank insignia and I presume he knows what to look for thus, the implication of Robert’s comment is that Mike doesn’t know the workmanship and period materials of an SS Generals tab with his hands on the tabs in question.
The direction then moves towards the Demelhuber tab variant (pointy stems) on Mike’s site purported to have been obtained directly from the General himself by Bill McClure. Robert comments this is also “a repro”. When asked how do you know it’s simply related “because its an old story with those stems” which, honestly, made me sort-of cringe because in my opinion, (and not wanting to be a dick about it) repeating the same thing again and again is the definition of a “mantra” not research or evidence.
Christian points out McClure’s pointy stem tab (“a repro” per Robert) is the same type “hawked” in the Priess grouping. Searching the forum I find reference and imagery to the aforementioned “Priess grouping” ( http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ss#post7973569 ) showing a set of pointy stemmed tabs in a group of medals and uniform insignia that: “appear to be one main grouping which came from his (Priess’) estate.” According to DMS “Steve Wolfe has that grouping.” Now, apparently, rather than a provenance laden (second) set being firmer footing for more research on the subject of pointy stemmed variants the clear implication is that this set is also junk.
Now we have, by the extension of these posted remarks, Mr. McClure (who I know nothing of) apparently lying that he obtained the pointy stemmed tab on Mike’s site directly from General Demelhuber and we have either Steve Wolfe lying about a grouping coming directly from General Priess’ estate or the executor of the Priess estate and/or his family members themselves went out and ‘found’ a really well made set of unique pointy stemmed tabs and sold it to Wolfe rather than hand over a set of his original tabs. By extension, Mr. Wolfe can’t tell a period made SS General tab from a post war fake any more the Mike Holverson and, by the use of the word “hawked” one needs to assume Mr. Wolfe was selling this grouping ~ the informal definition of the word: “hawked” is “a person who preys on others” therefore the implication is he knows these tabs to be reproductions thus is cut of the same cloth as Charlie Snyder.
Is this a viable summary or have I read too much into the comments here?
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I made no implications. Only an observation that a same type of set were offered with the Priess grouping. English not being my first language, I were not aware of the negative connotations with the word "hawked", and should have used the word "offered" instead.Comment
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I don't mean to turn this thread into a dictionary discussion, but are there a negative connotation attached to the word "hawked"?
From the Cambridge:
to peddle or offer for sale by calling aloud in public.
to advertise or offer for sale:Comment
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anyone can do bis own homework on this matter and his own decision, if you use the search function you will find other views and info as well. I remember early maybe around 2003 I saw then offered out of SoCal and now we see them quite offen...Comment
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Hi,
The various items from that Priess lot were proposed on Thies 65 with the Wittmann grouping (also from Wolfe).
You can notice that the infofiles on The-Saleroom were partly wrong, the Priess lots were listed as being from the Wittmann estate.
Lot 440 Priess. Ritterkreuz mit Eichenlaub und Schwertern
Starting price : 35.000 euros.
Lot passed.
Lot 441 Priess. Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
Starting price : 4.000 euros.
Sold 4.400 euros.
Lot 442 Priess. SS-Totenkopfring
Starting price : 20.000 euros.
Sold 26.000 euros.
Lot 443 Priess. Paar Kragenspiegel
Starting price : 4.500 euros.
Lot passed.
Lot 444 Priess. Paar Schulterstücke
Starting price : 2.000 euros.
Lot passed.
Lot 445 Priess. Ärmelband (death head)
Starting price : 4.000 euros.
Sold 4.100 euros.
Lot 446 Priess. Ärmelband (Totenkopf)
Starting price : 2.500 euros.
Sold 4.600 euros.
Lot 447 Priess. Allgemeines Sturmabzeichen, Feinzinkausführung, an Nadel.
Schwarzes Verwundetenabzeichen 1. Weltkrieg, durchbrochenes Exemplar, an Nadel. Schützenauszeichnung mit rückseitiger Gravur: „Dem besten Schützen Faymonville 1927“ und zusätzlich eingeritzt „24. VII.“. Band zum EK 2. Klasse 1939.
Starting price : 200 euros.
Sold 200 euros.
Below are the two collar tabs proposed on lot 443, courtesy of Andreas Thies.
It was previously confirmed that the Wittmann lot owned by Wolfe included a bogus award (dated June 22, 1944 - which was never in Wittmann estate), so if it happened for the Wittmann lot, which can’t it happen for others, like the Priess one ?
It will not be the first time that a lot is “pimped” by fakes or items of unknown (or dubious) origin.
See You
VinceComment
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This set of Pol/General tabs is currently "on Hold" on a Dealer website...They show the same variant.Comment
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One term that pops up again and again in this hobby is the word: “horde”. There’ve been the Scloss Klessheim ‘horde’, Dachau hordes, the Eastern Europe horde of new/mint EKs, castle hordes, supply train hordes, tailor shop ‘hordes’ turning up all manner of hand embroidered insignia for all armed service branches. There have been, for all intents and purposes, ‘hordes’ of “hordes” which is why I shook my head when Robert’s remark implied these pointy stemmed tabs were fake because “so many popped up ... back then …” Simply put ~ bunches of ‘stuff’ turns up quite often in our hobby. Some that surfaces is new/never issued and some never seen before. So, for me, because stuff “pops up” doesn’t immediately translate to they’re newly minted manifestations of the Fourth Reich.
Admittedly, the majority of my General’s tabs are army so I’m far more familiar with the many differences one can find reflected in those tabs. A great deal of differences are seen from well formed balls to a mess, from real curly ‘horns’ or prongs or ones reflecting no curls at all, to the central oval, twisted cord sometimes seamlessly joined yet sometimes not, sometimes the oval is open, sometimes not ~ I own both types and infer nothing from this feature. Yet, the folks focusing on SS General’s insignia seem obsessed with the need for utter cookiecutterness of their tabs. They hate ‘nuances’.
Where I can’t speak to Thies’, Wolfe’s or McClure’s propensity to prevaricate regarding these tabs I can only rely on the powers of observation to help me in this goofy hobby. Given the very minor nuanced difference between acceptable and the alleged fake pointy stems, I hope I’ll be excused for remaining skeptical of the majority’s opinion.
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Hi,
to stay on on this interesting topic that are the Police General tabs, i discovered that two other sets were proposed on eMedals.
I would be interested to have opinions of WAF members on them.
Here is the first set (sold for 2300 usd).
https://www.emedals.com/police-gener...a-a-rare-g6359
Pictures courtesy of eMedals.
See You
VinceComment
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1Comment
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Hi,
here is the second set still for sale for 1380 usd :
https://www.emedals.com/an-unissued-...-s-collar-tabs
See You
Vince
PS : here is the link for the 2 collar tabs (proposed for 1480 usd) that started this topic :
https://www.emedals.com/germany-a-pa...-s-collar-tabsComment
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Hi,
just to add some infos on the topic, eMedals is also proposing SS General collar tabs for 3375 usd here :
https://www.emedals.com/germany-a-se...second-pattern
See You
VinceComment
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