Michael Wittmann grouping on Andreas Thies 65

[eubank]

Regimentals UK are currently selling some items that are said to be recovered from his wrecked Tiger.

[chen]

Interesting thread to read.
Get this photo from a book.

[sutka]

and the story goes on

[rob NL]

Interesting thread to read.
Get this photo from a book.

Which book is this?

[Chris Boonzaier]

For years I have been a rabid attacker of anyone splitting groups... I have in the past paid way over market to buy individual bits of groups together...


Recently I tried to sell 2-3 groups... initially at the price for a great group.... then at the price of the individual pieces... then at quite a bit less than the value of the individual pieces...


Everyone high fives you when you save a group, or buy the pieces together.... but when it comes to moving it, they want to pay much less.



I am tethering towards the "Screw this, I am going to split, sell and recuperate my money"


I once sold a DKiG group... I turned down 2 buyers who mentioned they only wanted to keep part of it... then gave an Italian dealer here on WAF a good price as it was a group he would "treasure"... about half a year later half the pieces had been exchanges for others and it was on the site of a major German dealer...


Most collectors have empty words when it comes to saving the integrity of groups...

[markus]

Chris, I fully understand your frustration. I'm one of the guys trying to put groups back together again (Teddy Wisch - Even wrote a book about him). Most collector's a chronically low on cash and prefer to have "a part of something big," hence the terrible destruction of historic groups through the years.

I also collect (flown) space memorabilia and you would not believe what dealers do there: E.g. they actually cut bungee cords which flew to the moon on Apollo in little pieces, glue them to a presentation card and sell that off at the fraction of the original and complete piece. Sometime those are historic checklists or equipment parts which landed on the moon's surface!

As to the Wittmann-Group, most collectors won't know, but the Thies lot represents about 30-40% of the complete estate. The truely historic and personal pieces found their way into collections way before in the 80ties and 90ties....

[chen]

This tunic claimed to be from Wittmann's estate from a reliable dealer.
Note the rank( Captain) and most insignia are removed.

[rob NL]

This is not the tunic he wore at his wedding.

[markus]

Michel Wittmann

As Rob correctly pointed out the other day, the wedding tunic did survive. The piece was stripped after the war of all insignia and medals, with only the shoulderboards remaining (the local tailor did not have LAH cyphers btw). Today the tunic is restored and in a private collection.
The other garments were also stripped and I find it difficult to 100% postively ID them (try to ID a black Pz. wrap to period photos) and then pay money serious for them.
There were also trousers, a cap and even a grey/white (Kharkov) Pz. coverall originally with the group, but that found it's way to the local winter-clothing donation!

The group is fantastic and for me personally I have never owned a group which expressed more personal human drama than this one. I love it when groups tell a story and this is definitely it!

A few weeks ago I made an exhibition here for my local collecting friends of my share of the group and I think I might make another one in form of a real presentation towards fall/winter of this man's short life, military career and even deep love and affection for his wife.

Cheers,
Markus

[rob NL]

The tunic was stripped, but the effects were still with the widow.
When the tunic was sold together with the others uniforms the effects ( CT’s and tabs and such) were taking with them and the tunics were restored using the effects that the widow had in a cigar box.

[rob NL]

Btw; while it’s true that’s it’s hard to identify the other tunics there is much evidence that they belonged to Wittmann. The black one can be identified IMO.
There are old pictures where the tunics are still with the widow, many collectors that visited the widow stated that the uniforms, trousers, shoes and boots were in her possession.
And there are similar traits to them.

[markus]

Btw; while it’s true that’s it’s hard to identify the other tunics there is much evidence that they belonged to Wittmann. The black one can be identified IMO.
There are old pictures where the tunics are still with the widow, many collectors that visited the widow stated that the uniforms, trousers, shoes and boots were in her possession.
And there are similar traits to them.

Yes, I can confirm that she had a lot of uniform items. Stuff that Michel had left at home and items the unit sent back to her after MW had been killed (I have the letters from von Westerhagen to Mrs. Wittmann here concerning his belongings). For some of my items, e.g. his personal photo camera, which were returned Mrs. Wittmann gave me photo affidavits.

There are some pictures of the uniforms hanging on the door of her living room. There might be better photos of these garments of course. Anyway, the items exist, it's "only" the question of positively ID'ing them.

Cheers,
Markus

[rob NL]

There are some pictures of the uniforms hanging on the door of her living room. There might be better photos of these garments of course. Anyway, the items exist, it's "only" the question of positively ID'ing them.

Cheers,
Markus

The fact that they come from her, have similar traits and she states they were Wittmann’s AND there are pictures that they are in her house is pretty rocksolid to me. The only item that I haven’t been able to identify yet in period pics is the overcoat.
The rest is. IMHO.

[chen]

.

[rob NL]

Chen in which book was that picture of that man holding the leather coat?