Dirty Cut off SS Eagle

[Ian Hulley]

We are not talking about a standard 'Tan' Tropical sleeve eagle, we are talking about the possibility of a Brown sleeve eagle and it's corresponding Green equivalent. The owner of the green eagle is a member of this forum and should he choose to share his eagle with us you will see that it is also a distinctive colour and (as I said before) NOT the same 'bottle green' shade as a the camo cap sets.


Ian

[Mike Davis]

One looker original in my opinion. The bobbin stitching and the fabric the eagle is sewn to confirm this. This one remind me of my first woven cut off from the early '70s, it was almost this dirty. I can see no conceivable scenario where a camo sleeve eagle might have been factory applied to a wool garment...

[jmcm]

Green eagle

[David T]

Nice eagle! But this is a cap eagle. No argument about green/brown cap eagles.

[90th Light]

The SS eagle that started this thread has been cold-dyed brown from regular grey. If you take a tooth pick and gently separate the threads, you will find the original grey colour at the bottom were it meets the black.

The Germans were the masters of dying when WW2 started. However, one will never know if the eagle was cold-dyed during WW2 or after. The most likely scenario is that it was dyed after WW2 to deceive collectors. Unless of course evidence emerges of the Germans dying such eagles during WW2 for camo uniforms,

Chris

[TonyS]

Come on , no one has coloured it brown that's just silly , they must have the steadiest hand in history , perhaps its just reacted with something or its a darker shade . Rob

The fakers do indeed have extremely steady hands and they will practice for days, weeks, months and years to perfect their "craft".

I don't believe you can still watch the Canadian crime series "Masterminds" on YouTube due to copyright, but the episode that sticks in my mind is about the FBI's "Operation Bullpen" - about a huge sports memorabilia forgery operation. A guy called Frank Marino and his team perfected - yes perfect forgeries - many baseball players signatures; especially Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth, and the art of making, new, signed baseballs into "period" baseballs. Many of their forgeries out in the market still cannot be distinguished from the authentic items.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2gPS50-Wfs

Even legitimate craftsmen working on very small items will sit for hours at a time with magnifiers on their heads to get things perfect. Anyone who thinks the fakers in militaria won't do the same is deluding themselves especially when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to be made.

Be careful out there.....

[TK GUY]

Sleeve Eagle

Hello,

I am the owner of the SS eagle shown in the picture of post #7, by TonyS. It is part of my Battle of the Bulge Das Reich grouping, which was acquired directly from a U.S. Armored Division vet. I have owned it for 34+ years. See DR group photo below.

Regarding the eagle that started this thread, to me it would fall into the debated “camo” sleeve eagle in bright brown and bright green, which are being discussed in another thread too. Noted SS collector Jim Toncar (JimT) does not believe in their originality. It would be interesting to hear Bob Hritz and Gary Wood’s opinion on these. A number of the “camo” eagles posted in the past have the appearance of an original sleeve eagle that has been dyed post war. There are original TROPICAL eagles that have a lighter brownish color to them. Attached is part of a 1995 Military Advisor Magazine article on tropical eagles, written by noted SS collector Frank Thayer. It lists the colors the tropical sleeve eagles were produced in. (see photo)

I own one of these rare dull brown tropical eagles, along with other color versions. These were not produced for SS camo uniforms, but are simply color variations of the tropical sleeve eagle. Below are two photos of my original dull brown tropical eagle compared to two recently shown debated “camo” eagles. In person, the post war dyed “camo” versions I have handled usually have a brownish staining to the black welt base. The black welt base is no longer shiny and crisp. In addition, the black welt base material feels “stiff” from being dyed – no longer the usual silky smooth feel of an original, which has not been messed with.

My thoughts,
Paul

[TK GUY]

Tropcial dull brown eagle

Hello,

Here is an original tropical dull brown sleeve eagle, compared to the two "debated" camo brown sleeve eagles.

Paul

[ROBB]

Just like to add it was bought from the actual vet along with other TR items by an esteemed member . Clearly both original just not as common. Rob

[TK GUY]

Brown Eagle

Hi Rob,

Can you share more details about your brown eagle - which esteemed member did you purchase the eagle from? Are there any details known on the U.S. vet - division, when it was picked up, location, documentation?

I think it would be interesting if we could get a definitive answer as to the existence of original bright brown and bright green sleeve eagles. Certainly they existed in those colors in cap eagles. It is promising that Mike Davis likes it.

I know how you feel having an unusual item- at one point I owned two pairs of both the green and brown skulls for the camo cap. One mint set was the bright green and bright brown versions - the known original version, which I compared, in person, to the skulls on the late Willis Schumacher
and Dave Delich's camo caps. Everyone accepted them. The other set, which had been removed from a cap, where dirty, darker color of green and brown - stained like your bird. However, they were a different pattern/style of skull than the accepted version. I was told repeatedly they were post war dyed. I know longer own them, but I have always held out hope that a camo cap would surface one day, with this other type of camo skull on them.

Paul