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    #31
    We are still faced with the fact that the tubular wire LAH cuff titles in posts 12 and 13 that have non standard band weave are either fakes, and that Delich's LAH band and the others are a fake, or they are pre-RZM originals. We cannot have it both ways.

    As to Robert's statement as to the lettering, these being hand done will of course differ in minor respects. I don't know what that proves.

    As to the black light test, I suggest that those who believe in it read an article that I wrote a number of years ago.

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=869610
    Last edited by Gary Symonds; 07-04-2018, 11:27 AM.

    Comment

      #32
      how you come up the ones from DD have no standard band material, its impossible to detect based fromo the photos or from the books.


      The one that has NO standard weave and odd lettering is a copy and amen with no exceptions.



      To use a UV light is quite a laugh ...



      Stay with that what you like its best

      Comment

        #33
        Originally posted by Robert H View Post
        how you come up the ones from DD have no standard band material, its impossible to detect based fromo the photos or from the books.


        The one that has NO standard weave and odd lettering is a copy and amen with no exceptions.



        To use a UV light is quite a laugh ...



        Stay with that what you like its best
        Well Robert, I suggest that if your computer has a way to magnify a picture, that you can see Delich's tubular LAH cuff title clearly lacks the "accepted" weave pattern. It is far from "impossible" to see this with the naked eye. I would agree based on my article on the Black Light Test, that the use of "UV light is quite a laugh."

        Since you are an expert, please explain, though I've asked you many times, without a cogent answer, to tell the WAF membership why pre-RZM hand embroidered tubular wire cuff titles could NOT have been produced in a non standard weave, prior to 1934-35?

        C'mon Robert, give it a try!

        Comment

          #34
          Another one.

          Comment

            #35
            Beautiful LAH Cuff title in tubular wire and the accepted band pattern.

            My theory is that the tubular wire cuff titles only were made in the pre-RZM period. After 1934-35, the RZM standardized hand embroidered Cuff titles with the finer gauge wire.

            Comment

              #36
              Hi,

              Gary, according to Gordon Williamson book page 178 that i previously posted a scan of, the first LSSAH cuff title pattern was a standard RZM style with “AH” in Gothic script.

              The second pattern was still a standard RZM style, but this time with “AH” in Sütterlin” script (what we currently are debating).

              Anyone can help on knowing if Gordon Williamson is right or wrong on this timeline ?

              See You

              Vince

              Comment

                #37
                Both Bender books cited in the thread, reading between the lines, the AH started with Hitler’s SS body guard Attachment in March 1933, and being “short lived” was probably phased out before 1933 by the Suterlin pattern.

                Comment

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post
                  We are still faced with the fact that the tubular wire LAH cuff titles in posts 12 and 13 that have non standard band weave are either fakes, and that Delich's LAH band and the others are a fake, or they are pre-RZM originals. We cannot have it both ways.

                  As to Robert's statement as to the lettering, these being hand done will of course differ in minor respects. I don't know what that proves.

                  As to the black light test, I suggest that those who believe in it read an article that I wrote a number of years ago.

                  http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=869610
                  I read your article and in fact had the issue of the magazine it came out in up until two weeks ago when I tossed it in the garbage. The black light test has proven efficient on items using white core threads and I have tested it for over 40 years and it never fails to expose a fake. On every original piece with proof nothing ever glows. The only time it may react is if a piece was washed or if it was dyed. But on cufftitles, sleeve eagles, sleeve lining stitching, shoulder board cord. If it glows caveat emptor.

                  Comment

                    #39
                    John, I thought you were into snakes.

                    Why don’t you write your own article on your “research”?

                    See if Dietrich will actually publish it.

                    Good luck

                    Comment

                      #40
                      I don't need to write articles for low end out of print publications. You think because you have a published article it makes you an expert ? Hahah there are a long list of books written by quacks in this hobby go join them. Be among the Richard Kimmel's and see if your cuff titles are haunted. I couldn't sell that article so I just threw it where it belonged, in the trash.


                      Guys like this are dangerous to the hobby they throw out misinformation to see what sticks.

                      Comment

                        #41
                        John, the hobby was better off when you decided to collect snakes.

                        You still as in the past offer nothing but conclusions and second hand irrelevant opinions.

                        Go back to collecting snakes.

                        Comment

                          #42
                          I think I have exposed more monkey business in this hobby over the years than you did with your inconclusive Black light article. You just suddenly pop up out of hibernation misleading people with your nonsense. I stay around the forum just to catch little monkeys who try to spread nonsense. I do know snakes quite well when I see one.
                          Last edited by John Pic; 07-05-2018, 02:28 AM.

                          Comment

                            #43
                            Ok well here’s the challenge take 5 known original embroidered SS runic tabs, SS sleave eagles and SS cufftitles. Known to be period pieces put them put them up against quesionable pieces and see what your results are. I can guarantee that none of the known originals will glow under UV. Anyone here if you have known originals try it and get back to me.

                            Comment

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post

                              As to Robert's statement as to the lettering, these being hand done will of course differ in minor respects. I don't know what that proves.

                              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=869610
                              Slight variations in embroidery will occur but the original one posted is significantly different from the known originals that have been posted subsequently.

                              In your post #4 you state that "the execution of the hand embroidery is excellent", actually it is quite poor and would deceive only a novice.

                              Tom

                              Comment

                                #45
                                Odd notions about the quality of embroidery , “excellent” is a big word.
                                Lettering is sketchy, bullion with greyish hue is the hallmark of a lot of SS repro officers’ cuff title made four decades ago (everybody who was collecting SS insignia in the ‘70s remembers this), the black tape is wrong, the aluminum edging is patently lurex. Furthermore, the fact that Gen Dietrich (whose CT was made in France, if I remember correctly) and a few others had a handful of cuff titles privately made, doesn’t make any non standard CT plausible. These are factual certainties, there’s no need for mere sophistry. I’m puzzled by the defending something no serious SS collector would defend. Out.

                                Comment

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