12th SS cuff title

[grenadierss17]

Hello guys
I have picked up a 12th SS cuff Title two weekends ago at an estate sale in PA I was wondering if you guys could tell me the value on it. It looks good to me has normal wear and a brown discoloration to the white lettering. Also has the BEVO-WUPPERTAL label at the end. It passed a burn test and a black light test also. If you would like pics email me at grenadierss17@comcast.net I think I am going to sell it so if anyone is interested let me know.
Thanks
grenadierss17

[Mike C]

Sorry but the 12th SS Hitlerjugend title was never manufactured by BEVO; it was one of a fairly small handful of machine woven titles.

Mike

[grenadierss17]

Oh man that really sucks! Its gotta be an old repro then I cant understand how it passed the burn test and UV test. Thanks for the info.
grenadierss17

[Gesetz]

Supposedly there was a small (very small) amount of machine-embroidered Hitlerjugend cufftitles. Or so says Blood and Honour- The history of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitler Youth" 1943-1945 by Craig Luther. Is this possible or simply a lack of credible information?

[Mike C]

Hi Gesetz,

My reference was Williamson and McGuirl's "German Military Cuffbands 1784-Present". I share their belief that the only official cufftitle was the machine-woven variant.

This being said - a picture of the rear of Grenadier's cufftitle might tell all.

Mike

[Gesetz]

Well on page 256 of the book I mentionned above, there is a picture of the machine woven and machine embroidered cuff, claiming that both are for enlisted ranks. Although it might be a repro, and I'm far from being an expert on cloth items, it looks OK to me. I'll try to post a scan later, it doesn't show the back unfortunately.


It also gives a reference, does anyone know a source to verify this information : Verordnungsblatt der Waffen-SS, Feb 15, 1944, Nr. 4. Z. 64.

[Mike C]

The same type of machine stitched cufftitle adorns the spine of the English version of Hubert Meyer's divisional history ("The History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision Hitlerjugend") - but I very much doubt it is pre-45. Craig Luther's work (which I have as well) is a reasonable history of the 12 SS in Normandy but makes no claims to provide a comprehensive analysis of its insignia. I would add the Angolia's "Cloth Insignia of the SS" also indicates that only the machine-woven CT was worn. The very few period photographs of the cufftitle in wear also only show the machine woven version.

Mike

[Gesetz]

Here is the page I wrote about earlier. Does it look like they are wearing the cufftitle or could it be LAH?

[Mike C]

Hi Gesetz,

Your images didn't come through. In any case, RZM pattern cufftitles were discontinued in 1943, replaced by BEVO and machine-woven CTs. Why would there be HJ cufftitles in RZM pattern for a unit that only recieved its first CTs in November 1944?

Mike